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this time i'm skeptical

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is your relationship with my client

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entirely platonic not

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it's not your relationship with my

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client point

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dead baby bad baby mystery you had sex

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with her every time you met didn't you

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didn't you liar he's badgering the

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witness it's his witness

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that's jim carrey from the movie liar

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liar where a lawyer is cursed with

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having to tell the truth you're going to

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hear more from jim carrey in just a

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minute you're also going to hear how

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there's this direct connection between

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lying

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telling the truth truth seeking

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and liberty

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[Music]

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liberty is eroding at an alarming rate

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that's today's guest mark gober talking

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about his new book an end to upside down

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liberty and more generally talking about

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the situation we find ourselves in today

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now i don't want to go too dramatic too

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conspiratorial because that turns off

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people

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but

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we do go a little nazi on this one

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but sticking to the nazi parallel

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because it's easy

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we're burning books now

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when you're banning people

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de-platforming people people who have

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phds have a long history of publishing

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in peer-reviewed medical journals and

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they're pulled from

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all the platforms

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everywhere we look there is

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an ideology and if you don't agree with

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that ideology whether it's medically or

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politically or anything

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you're a conspiracy theorist you're

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spreading dangerous misinformation which

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these are very anti-scientific ideas the

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the exploration of science or anything

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in the world is to explore and to

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explore many different theories and

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right now there's less and less of an

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ability to do that

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one of the things i looked at in this

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book is the impact of

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mind control

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propaganda brainwashing through multiple

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venues so mainstream media but also

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through social media and tech because if

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we think about the way in which we view

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the world and the way

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the reasons that we have opinions about

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the world are informed by

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what we personally experience which is

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very limited and what we're told and

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that comes about through social media

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the news books we read

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and if what we can research outside of

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our own individual experience is being

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limited intentionally where certain

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ideas no we can't talk about that that's

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going to be censored that's going to be

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shadow band where you can't see it as

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easily then there is a capacity to alter

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consciousness on a mass scale

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i know shadow banning sensoring yada

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yada but if you've been around this show

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for a while you know that the origins of

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the show are really with the frontier

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science people i'm talking about people

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in parapsychology in near-death

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experience science and after death

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communication science reincarnation

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science i could go on and on all the

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people who have pushed back against this

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crazy you are a biological robot in a

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meaningless universe and you have no

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connection to anything more

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we fought that battle

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so why aren't we battle tested why

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aren't we the first ones

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to stand up and sound the alarm about

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where this ship is headed

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and to a certain extent i guess the

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reason i get so hyped up about it is

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that if we can't call it from what we've

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seen in the last 10 years in the

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frontier science consciousness community

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if we we were

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we were there

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we were the frontiersmen arrows in the

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front and arrows in the back we should

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be the people that said look here's how

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it happened back then and here's how

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it's being amped up 10 times in terms of

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the co-opting of science really the just

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complete assault on science well i hear

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you alex i think it's uh

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there seems to be a divide i've noticed

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not only in the frontier science

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community but also in the spiritual

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community and the way that i look at it

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at the highest level is that it's

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perhaps an inability and an

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unwillingness to recognize evil and the

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hiddenness of evil to say well i don't

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see how that could happen i can't

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understand the mechanism for how someone

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could do that therefore no it must be

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that we'll take the benign explanation

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which is that it's just that people

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can't shift their paradigms which is

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part of it too

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a divide a divide between those who can

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see or at least contemplate the

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hiddenness of evil

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and those who can't

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continuing with this clip

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there are probably scientists out there

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who just can't shift their paradigms

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they're not part of a psyop and they

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just are that's how they are but this

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seems to be systematic the way in which

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there are there are six sigma

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statistical results and dean rayden

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talks about this in his book real magic

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which was endorsed by two nobel prize

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winning scientists in the categories of

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telepathy remote viewing precognition

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and psychokinesis that means the odds

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against chance are more than a billion

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to one meaning in any other area of

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science that's a real phenomenon and yet

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if you talk about psychokinesis if i

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talk about that to my professors from

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princeton they'd probably tell me i'm

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crazy

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how does that happen there's something

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there's there's a suppression going on

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i i would say that i'm probably more

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open to this because of my professional

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experience and maybe you have a similar

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experience alex i saw stuff

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i saw corruption first hand in a way

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that is was very damaging to people's

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lives so i worked a lot with

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intellectual property i i was in

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investment banking in new york first

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which was more just traditional stuff

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not in tech

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but then i worked in the tech space

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where we worked with inventors at large

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companies and small companies who were

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challenging paradigms so an invention a

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patented technology is one that is both

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novel and non-obvious that's the legal

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definition relative to the prior art

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everything that's been done in the past

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meaning that if you get a patent on

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something you're contradicting you're

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contradicting what the mainstream is

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doing

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and there's a lot of pushback often so

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you can imagine what might happen when

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you have some smaller inventors going up

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against big companies

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what could happen

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where the big companies who have lots of

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power can manipulate the system so

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i saw it i've seen the media manipulate

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things i've seen the judicial system get

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manipulated all up and down the power

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structures

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so i'm more open to it and then the

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whole covet thing happens and it's the

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same thing a person has a somewhat

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benign observation that contradicts the

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mainstream narrative they're booted off

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youtube so there's begins to be a

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pattern and

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one has to recognize that not everyone

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is moral

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i agree with mark on this one people

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who've been in a highly competitive

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money-oriented field quickly learn that

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not everyone can maintain the royal

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compass but secondly not everyone wears

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their moral compass like a wristwatch

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the snakes in suits thing is real

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but what if it's more than that

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and at a spiritual level this could

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relate to dark forces that's how i look

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at it

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okay so maybe science isn't in the best

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position to save us but we can't be

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saved right i mean

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maybe our political leaders will rise up

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and do the right thing

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the politics of it that's gone right

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there is no real

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left right red state democrat that

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doesn't really

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fit the bill here right

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i agree with you completely and it's a

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super important point because there's a

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paradigm that people are in

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of well if you're not a democrat then

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you're a republican and vice versa and

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if you believe this then you're part of

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this political movement and it's this

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very divisive mentality one of the

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things that i try to do in my book and

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end upside down liberty is to

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transcend that the left-right division

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and get it more to

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the spectrum of liberty versus

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non-liberty because really the left and

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the right have differing opinions on

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what the other party should be doing

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which to me is counter to principles of

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liberty and then that mentality becomes

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warped into an us versus them and it i

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think can warp our ability to

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objectively look at science because you

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might hear an opinion from that let's

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say if you're a democrat that oh the

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right wingers are saying this is true

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scientifically i'm not a republican i

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think republicans are evil and because

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i'm a good person i can't agree with

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that science it's like this this weird

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warped logic that

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removes objectivity from the situation

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and i think it allows for greater mind

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control

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so what should we do

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maybe the first thing we should do is

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return to jim carrey

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and take a good hard look at the reality

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of our situation

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you're supposed to say it's all going to

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be all right and you're supposed to say

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whatever you dream can come true

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and you're supposed to say all those

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things i do believe in manifestation

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power of that kind of stuff but i don't

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believe that any of it matters

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everything is divine and i'm that

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i'm finding that ultimately the

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the freedom from it is uh

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is something people are kind of hungry

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for in a way they're like i don't want

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to be me either and i go well look great

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i so love what jim carrey's saying right

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there but i gotta say it doesn't really

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hit me

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where i live

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back to a final clip from today's

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interview with the very excellent mark

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gober

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i want to go back to something you said

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earlier about like you know should we be

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changing people's minds or are they on

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their own path and for me

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what i like to do is put information out

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and those who are interested might

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gravitate towards it i'm not going to

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change people and actually i don't know

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their karmic path or their spiritual

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path maybe they're not supposed to

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change

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i always remember talking to a guy and i

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won't mention his name but he got very

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serious and he goes

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never get between a seeker and their

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guru

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i'm like well i'll take that one on

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myself yes i'm going to get between a

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seeker and their guru so if your guru is

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any of the people who are peddling this

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pandemic peddling just trust me give me

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all your

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be fine

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if that's your guru i will try and

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disrupt not physically but

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intellectually i will try and disrupt

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that connection and i do feel like

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that's my job because i think the

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foremost value

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is

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one love everyone but two tell the truth

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and that's what i think you're trying to

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do and that's what i'm trying to do too

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we gotta tell the truth

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all right let's get to some truth

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telling

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here's my interview with mark gober if

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you like it spread it around

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[Music]

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welcome to skeptico where we explore

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controversial science and spirituality

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with leading researchers thinkers and

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their critics i'm your host alex karis

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and today we welcome back mark gober to

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skeptico mark as you may remember is a

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very talented guy

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investment banking background in silicon

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valley and new york i mentioned that

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because i always find this

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super interesting i mean you will find

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mark to be intelligent

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no doubt the first book we had him on to

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talk about an end to upside down

321
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thinking very well written even won a

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prize for it but

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you'll hear throughout in this interview

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i think and the reason i like it is mark

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has

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his foot firmly planted in this

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world you know making money being

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successful being successful in school

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doing all those things

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and then as you'll hear

331
00:11:34,630 --> 00:11:32,240
he's kind of drifted off into this other

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world this skeptical related world of

333
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consciousness and upside-down thinking

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and his latest book and into upside down

335
00:11:46,150 --> 00:11:44,079
liberty so anyways i just remind you

336
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that's what i think is so fun

337
00:11:51,750 --> 00:11:49,360
talking to mark in particular but people

338
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like mark who are accomplished in

339
00:11:55,509 --> 00:11:53,839
a lot of different areas so i don't know

340
00:11:58,150 --> 00:11:55,519
i just kind of spun that out there but

341
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mark welcome back thanks for joining me

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00:12:01,590 --> 00:11:59,519
thank you for having me alex i'm looking

343
00:12:04,470 --> 00:12:01,600
forward to this

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00:12:07,590 --> 00:12:04,480
so as i mentioned you wrote the book a

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couple years ago all about consciousness

346
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and into upside down thinking kind of

347
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pointing out

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this ridiculousness of

349
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consciousness is an epiphenomenon of the

350
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brain kind of stuff that is so

351
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entrenched

352
00:12:26,069 --> 00:12:23,440
in science and is maybe a little bit

353
00:12:28,230 --> 00:12:26,079
less entrenched

354
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but we're reminded that it still is

355
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entrenched and now you've followed it up

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with

357
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a book and into upside down liberty tell

358
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us about the book tell us what it's

359
00:12:38,949 --> 00:12:36,800
about

360
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so an end to upside down liberty looks

361
00:12:44,949 --> 00:12:39,760
at

362
00:12:47,430 --> 00:12:44,959
which society is organized generally and

363
00:12:50,310 --> 00:12:47,440
what prompted the investigation in that

364
00:12:53,269 --> 00:12:50,320
area was really the whole coveted thing

365
00:12:55,509 --> 00:12:53,279
starting in 2020 we we saw that

366
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governments played a very important role

367
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in our lives they told us which

368
00:13:00,949 --> 00:12:59,120
businesses were essential and which ones

369
00:13:03,430 --> 00:13:00,959
weren't when we needed to be locked down

370
00:13:05,670 --> 00:13:03,440
and when we're not locked down etc so i

371
00:13:07,269 --> 00:13:05,680
started to look at into well what is

372
00:13:09,269 --> 00:13:07,279
government um

373
00:13:12,550 --> 00:13:09,279
how does the media play into that and

374
00:13:14,470 --> 00:13:12,560
ultimately what the book looks at is um

375
00:13:16,230 --> 00:13:14,480
in the idea that the way we do

376
00:13:17,990 --> 00:13:16,240
government around the world is

377
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inherently threatening to liberty which

378
00:13:21,430 --> 00:13:19,440
is problematic not only from just a

379
00:13:23,670 --> 00:13:21,440
traditional physicalist lens but also

380
00:13:25,910 --> 00:13:23,680
from a spiritual lens it's problematic

381
00:13:28,470 --> 00:13:25,920
so that's it in a nutshell

382
00:13:30,790 --> 00:13:28,480
so you're making some leaps there that

383
00:13:32,310 --> 00:13:30,800
uh we ought to explore because i'm right

384
00:13:35,430 --> 00:13:32,320
there with you

385
00:13:38,550 --> 00:13:35,440
but i have problems explaining this to

386
00:13:41,350 --> 00:13:38,560
people number one and number two even

387
00:13:43,990 --> 00:13:41,360
kind of believing it myself in a couple

388
00:13:46,150 --> 00:13:44,000
of different ways so let's start with

389
00:13:47,470 --> 00:13:46,160
the point you made about the connection

390
00:13:49,110 --> 00:13:47,480
between

391
00:13:52,069 --> 00:13:49,120
spirituality

392
00:13:53,430 --> 00:13:52,079
and what you're calling liberty well so

393
00:13:55,750 --> 00:13:53,440
this is a

394
00:13:57,910 --> 00:13:55,760
a big leap for many people because one

395
00:13:59,750 --> 00:13:57,920
has to believe in something other than

396
00:14:01,350 --> 00:13:59,760
scientific materialism or what some will

397
00:14:02,949 --> 00:14:01,360
call physicalism in order to even go

398
00:14:04,629 --> 00:14:02,959
there which is this idea that

399
00:14:05,990 --> 00:14:04,639
consciousness doesn't come from the

400
00:14:07,509 --> 00:14:06,000
brain and that's what my first book in

401
00:14:10,470 --> 00:14:07,519
my podcast and my second book were

402
00:14:13,110 --> 00:14:10,480
really about and that the idea that

403
00:14:14,870 --> 00:14:13,120
our identity is not our body but rather

404
00:14:17,590 --> 00:14:14,880
our consciousness is our identity and

405
00:14:18,790 --> 00:14:17,600
the body is a vessel or or the vehicle

406
00:14:20,710 --> 00:14:18,800
through which consciousness has an

407
00:14:22,150 --> 00:14:20,720
experience so a lot of what i've done is

408
00:14:23,670 --> 00:14:22,160
looked at the science to suggest that

409
00:14:25,990 --> 00:14:23,680
that is true so things like near-death

410
00:14:28,069 --> 00:14:26,000
experiences side phenomena lots of stuff

411
00:14:29,509 --> 00:14:28,079
you've covered on your show

412
00:14:31,509 --> 00:14:29,519
then there are some inferences that we

413
00:14:33,269 --> 00:14:31,519
could make if we look at things like the

414
00:14:34,230 --> 00:14:33,279
near-death experience

415
00:14:36,389 --> 00:14:34,240
um

416
00:14:37,829 --> 00:14:36,399
dr bruce grayson in his new book after

417
00:14:39,269 --> 00:14:37,839
which talks about near-death experiences

418
00:14:41,829 --> 00:14:39,279
and what he's seen uh he's from the

419
00:14:43,829 --> 00:14:41,839
university of virginia he says about 25

420
00:14:46,150 --> 00:14:43,839
he says a quarter of of near death

421
00:14:47,910 --> 00:14:46,160
experiences include a life review

422
00:14:49,509 --> 00:14:47,920
and dr jeffrey long has said in the

423
00:14:51,590 --> 00:14:49,519
range of 20 of people who have near

424
00:14:53,750 --> 00:14:51,600
death experiences in his database

425
00:14:55,430 --> 00:14:53,760
uh have a life review then what's a life

426
00:14:57,750 --> 00:14:55,440
review this is an instance where a

427
00:14:58,870 --> 00:14:57,760
person relives his or her whole life in

428
00:15:00,710 --> 00:14:58,880
a flash

429
00:15:02,710 --> 00:15:00,720
sometimes reliving the experiences

430
00:15:04,230 --> 00:15:02,720
through the eyes of other people and

431
00:15:05,350 --> 00:15:04,240
feeling the effects of his or her

432
00:15:08,230 --> 00:15:05,360
actions

433
00:15:10,150 --> 00:15:08,240
on that person so if for example for my

434
00:15:12,150 --> 00:15:10,160
podcast i interviewed daniel brinkley

435
00:15:13,910 --> 00:15:12,160
who has had four near-death experiences

436
00:15:16,150 --> 00:15:13,920
and each time he had a life review he

437
00:15:18,069 --> 00:15:16,160
had to relive the deaths of the people

438
00:15:21,269 --> 00:15:18,079
that he killed when he was fighting in

439
00:15:22,870 --> 00:15:21,279
vietnam through their eyes so he claims

440
00:15:24,150 --> 00:15:22,880
and he also felt the pain of the child

441
00:15:26,470 --> 00:15:24,160
who would no longer have a father

442
00:15:27,990 --> 00:15:26,480
because he had killed the father however

443
00:15:29,509 --> 00:15:28,000
in his later life reviews after he had

444
00:15:31,030 --> 00:15:29,519
become a hospice volunteer since the

445
00:15:33,110 --> 00:15:31,040
near death experience changed him so

446
00:15:35,590 --> 00:15:33,120
much he got to experience what it was

447
00:15:38,230 --> 00:15:35,600
like to be the dying person

448
00:15:40,550 --> 00:15:38,240
in the hospice and getting to see how he

449
00:15:42,389 --> 00:15:40,560
himself comforted that person so that's

450
00:15:43,350 --> 00:15:42,399
just an example we see many other cases

451
00:15:45,189 --> 00:15:43,360
of this

452
00:15:46,790 --> 00:15:45,199
so if we combine that life review we say

453
00:15:49,269 --> 00:15:46,800
that's a real phenomenon not just a

454
00:15:51,030 --> 00:15:49,279
hallucination this idea that there are

455
00:15:52,949 --> 00:15:51,040
consequences to our

456
00:15:54,230 --> 00:15:52,959
actions in life and we hold ourselves

457
00:15:55,910 --> 00:15:54,240
accountable that's actually one of the

458
00:15:57,269 --> 00:15:55,920
big things in the life review is that

459
00:15:59,030 --> 00:15:57,279
it's not like there's a third party

460
00:16:00,470 --> 00:15:59,040
judging which is what many religions

461
00:16:01,910 --> 00:16:00,480
have kind of turned it into it's

462
00:16:02,790 --> 00:16:01,920
actually yourself

463
00:16:04,550 --> 00:16:02,800
which

464
00:16:06,150 --> 00:16:04,560
aligns with this idea of a unified

465
00:16:09,670 --> 00:16:06,160
consciousness that you've talked about

466
00:16:12,069 --> 00:16:09,680
so much on the show but this idea of of

467
00:16:14,389 --> 00:16:12,079
consequences to our actions and a moral

468
00:16:15,509 --> 00:16:14,399
imperative as you often say

469
00:16:17,110 --> 00:16:15,519
that's real

470
00:16:18,710 --> 00:16:17,120
if we combine that with things like the

471
00:16:20,870 --> 00:16:18,720
research at the university of virginia

472
00:16:22,550 --> 00:16:20,880
over 2500 cases of young children who

473
00:16:24,470 --> 00:16:22,560
have memories of a previous life

474
00:16:26,550 --> 00:16:24,480
sometimes these are kids between the

475
00:16:28,629 --> 00:16:26,560
ages of two and five years old often

476
00:16:30,949 --> 00:16:28,639
sometimes the the researchers are able

477
00:16:32,470 --> 00:16:30,959
to verify what the child said by finding

478
00:16:34,230 --> 00:16:32,480
something from this alleged past life

479
00:16:36,069 --> 00:16:34,240
finding a person's actual historical

480
00:16:38,150 --> 00:16:36,079
records or sometimes even medical

481
00:16:40,150 --> 00:16:38,160
records if the child has birth marks or

482
00:16:42,150 --> 00:16:40,160
physical deformities that align with

483
00:16:43,189 --> 00:16:42,160
this alleged previous life so all that's

484
00:16:44,710 --> 00:16:43,199
to say there's evidence for

485
00:16:49,749 --> 00:16:44,720
reincarnation

486
00:16:51,910 --> 00:16:49,759
idea of a life review which is

487
00:16:53,829 --> 00:16:51,920
suggestive of potentially a learning

488
00:16:56,310 --> 00:16:53,839
process inherent in life that there's an

489
00:16:59,910 --> 00:16:56,320
evolutionary process

490
00:17:02,790 --> 00:16:59,920
involved in consciousness itself

491
00:17:04,710 --> 00:17:02,800
that might one might infer that the

492
00:17:06,470 --> 00:17:04,720
purpose of life or part of the purpose

493
00:17:08,069 --> 00:17:06,480
of life to the extent we can comprehend

494
00:17:10,549 --> 00:17:08,079
it is to evolve at the level of our

495
00:17:12,710 --> 00:17:10,559
consciousness to move toward a state

496
00:17:14,630 --> 00:17:12,720
ultimately of unconditional love that's

497
00:17:15,909 --> 00:17:14,640
what many people come back saying but

498
00:17:17,270 --> 00:17:15,919
there might be

499
00:17:19,750 --> 00:17:17,280
other more nuanced things that we're

500
00:17:21,429 --> 00:17:19,760
trying to learn in any given life

501
00:17:24,789 --> 00:17:21,439
so that is a long-winded way of saying

502
00:17:26,870 --> 00:17:24,799
that if we are to evolve as i see it

503
00:17:28,870 --> 00:17:26,880
we need to have liberty we need to have

504
00:17:31,270 --> 00:17:28,880
the freedom to be able to make our own

505
00:17:33,190 --> 00:17:31,280
choices as much as possible and

506
00:17:34,870 --> 00:17:33,200
ultimately the way i look at it is

507
00:17:37,190 --> 00:17:34,880
making our own choices as long as they

508
00:17:38,870 --> 00:17:37,200
are not harming someone else

509
00:17:41,270 --> 00:17:38,880
if we look at government government

510
00:17:43,830 --> 00:17:41,280
restricts that liberty inherently so i

511
00:17:45,350 --> 00:17:43,840
will just pause there alex and let you

512
00:17:47,430 --> 00:17:45,360
respond

513
00:17:48,710 --> 00:17:47,440
well i i don't really have a response

514
00:17:51,029 --> 00:17:48,720
other than to say i didn't think it was

515
00:17:54,230 --> 00:17:51,039
long-winded at all it's okay just right

516
00:17:56,710 --> 00:17:54,240
down main street in terms of my logical

517
00:17:58,390 --> 00:17:56,720
progression i'm totally in line with you

518
00:18:01,270 --> 00:17:58,400
and i think that that

519
00:18:02,710 --> 00:18:01,280
it's the path that the data leads us

520
00:18:04,310 --> 00:18:02,720
towards and that's what you're saying

521
00:18:06,630 --> 00:18:04,320
too

522
00:18:09,590 --> 00:18:06,640
speak to the leap though

523
00:18:11,750 --> 00:18:09,600
the chasm that you're jumping and i want

524
00:18:14,789 --> 00:18:11,760
to jump there with you i just want to

525
00:18:16,549 --> 00:18:14,799
kind of in skeptical fashion pull back

526
00:18:18,230 --> 00:18:16,559
is the individual

527
00:18:19,590 --> 00:18:18,240
versus the collective

528
00:18:22,630 --> 00:18:19,600
because a lot of the great wisdom

529
00:18:24,549 --> 00:18:22,640
traditions throughout time have come

530
00:18:27,110 --> 00:18:24,559
to all these same things and then have

531
00:18:29,990 --> 00:18:27,120
come back to the same point of saying

532
00:18:30,789 --> 00:18:30,000
yeah but since it's really is just about

533
00:18:37,590 --> 00:18:30,799
you

534
00:18:39,830 --> 00:18:37,600
ascension education evolution was the

535
00:18:43,669 --> 00:18:39,840
word you used then maybe it doesn't

536
00:18:45,590 --> 00:18:43,679
matter so much what all those evil doers

537
00:18:48,070 --> 00:18:45,600
are doing which is what i wrestle with

538
00:18:51,110 --> 00:18:48,080
too but i know you get what i mean how

539
00:18:52,549 --> 00:18:51,120
do you handle that question

540
00:18:54,710 --> 00:18:52,559
i've been wrestling that

541
00:18:57,190 --> 00:18:54,720
that issue myself i mean that's a

542
00:18:58,950 --> 00:18:57,200
it's a tough question to

543
00:19:00,310 --> 00:18:58,960
i think to comprehend with our limited

544
00:19:01,590 --> 00:19:00,320
human minds

545
00:19:03,029 --> 00:19:01,600
there might be things that are beyond

546
00:19:04,950 --> 00:19:03,039
our comprehension that we just are never

547
00:19:06,549 --> 00:19:04,960
going to fully grasp but the way i like

548
00:19:09,110 --> 00:19:06,559
to think about it is

549
00:19:11,510 --> 00:19:09,120
exploring the notion of paradox

550
00:19:12,710 --> 00:19:11,520
this idea that two things can be true at

551
00:19:14,230 --> 00:19:12,720
the same time even though they're

552
00:19:16,070 --> 00:19:14,240
contradictory

553
00:19:17,350 --> 00:19:16,080
um rick archer on buddha at the gas pump

554
00:19:18,710 --> 00:19:17,360
always talks about this that peridot

555
00:19:20,070 --> 00:19:18,720
understanding paradox is one of the most

556
00:19:21,669 --> 00:19:20,080
important things in in spiritual

557
00:19:24,310 --> 00:19:21,679
evolution many of the great teachers say

558
00:19:27,669 --> 00:19:24,320
that and to me the ultimate paradox in

559
00:19:29,510 --> 00:19:27,679
in reality as i see it is this idea that

560
00:19:30,630 --> 00:19:29,520
we are one interconnected consciousness

561
00:19:33,350 --> 00:19:30,640
and yet at the same time we're

562
00:19:35,029 --> 00:19:33,360
individuals so as dr bernardo castro

563
00:19:36,789 --> 00:19:35,039
says it's like we're whirlpools within a

564
00:19:39,110 --> 00:19:36,799
stream of consciousness we are both the

565
00:19:40,549 --> 00:19:39,120
whirlpool and the stream simultaneously

566
00:19:42,070 --> 00:19:40,559
how could that be true how could there

567
00:19:44,230 --> 00:19:42,080
be a market in alex and at the same time

568
00:19:45,990 --> 00:19:44,240
there's no differentiation and i think

569
00:19:48,070 --> 00:19:46,000
that's the paradox that we're forced to

570
00:19:49,990 --> 00:19:48,080
hold at the highest level that there is

571
00:19:52,710 --> 00:19:50,000
no individual but there is there's only

572
00:19:55,190 --> 00:19:52,720
a collective but there's not that to me

573
00:19:56,950 --> 00:19:55,200
relates to this dualistic notion of good

574
00:19:58,150 --> 00:19:56,960
and evil because at some level there's

575
00:19:59,510 --> 00:19:58,160
only unconditional love one

576
00:20:01,029 --> 00:19:59,520
consciousness that's what everyone talks

577
00:20:03,270 --> 00:20:01,039
about in the mystical experiences it's

578
00:20:05,590 --> 00:20:03,280
the same thing or very similar ideas of

579
00:20:07,270 --> 00:20:05,600
a unified field and yet there are things

580
00:20:08,870 --> 00:20:07,280
happening that are clearly

581
00:20:11,350 --> 00:20:08,880
contrary to unconditional love

582
00:20:13,029 --> 00:20:11,360
atrocities that that many of us see all

583
00:20:15,669 --> 00:20:13,039
over the world how could that be true at

584
00:20:18,149 --> 00:20:15,679
the same time so to me there is there is

585
00:20:21,430 --> 00:20:18,159
no evil and at the same time there is

586
00:20:23,590 --> 00:20:21,440
and i'm reminded of of a little video i

587
00:20:25,110 --> 00:20:23,600
saw of dr david hawkins a spiritual

588
00:20:26,390 --> 00:20:25,120
teacher who was also a psychiatrist so

589
00:20:28,310 --> 00:20:26,400
he was interesting to me because he

590
00:20:30,630 --> 00:20:28,320
deconstructed the ego at a practical

591
00:20:32,549 --> 00:20:30,640
level but he talked about ramana

592
00:20:34,390 --> 00:20:32,559
maharshi the great indian sage who used

593
00:20:36,630 --> 00:20:34,400
to say things like the world that we see

594
00:20:38,310 --> 00:20:36,640
doesn't exist and hawkins said he's

595
00:20:39,750 --> 00:20:38,320
right at the highest level of reality

596
00:20:41,510 --> 00:20:39,760
that's true

597
00:20:42,789 --> 00:20:41,520
um but at the same time there are many

598
00:20:44,230 --> 00:20:42,799
people who aren't living at that level

599
00:20:46,070 --> 00:20:44,240
of reality and they're enduring great

600
00:20:48,630 --> 00:20:46,080
suffering so what hawkins said is that

601
00:20:51,430 --> 00:20:48,640
it's a spiritual error to ignore the

602
00:20:52,310 --> 00:20:51,440
suffering at the level of this relative

603
00:20:53,510 --> 00:20:52,320
where there's where there are

604
00:20:55,590 --> 00:20:53,520
individuals

605
00:20:57,830 --> 00:20:55,600
so to me that's how i reconcile it is

606
00:20:59,430 --> 00:20:57,840
that there is no evil but there is and

607
00:21:00,789 --> 00:20:59,440
we have a spiritual duty to do something

608
00:21:03,029 --> 00:21:00,799
about it

609
00:21:04,549 --> 00:21:03,039
yeah so i don't know if people are

610
00:21:06,310 --> 00:21:04,559
following us but now we're getting into

611
00:21:08,149 --> 00:21:06,320
it because that's a very western

612
00:21:11,110 --> 00:21:08,159
approach to kind of take

613
00:21:12,549 --> 00:21:11,120
the the deep deep teachings of it and

614
00:21:14,870 --> 00:21:12,559
then say yeah but none of that matters

615
00:21:17,029 --> 00:21:14,880
because i'm a doer i'm a western guy i

616
00:21:19,510 --> 00:21:17,039
want to make it happen kind of thing i'm

617
00:21:20,470 --> 00:21:19,520
not i'm a western kind of person but i'm

618
00:21:22,630 --> 00:21:20,480
also

619
00:21:23,909 --> 00:21:22,640
an american yogi too have you ever seen

620
00:21:25,510 --> 00:21:23,919
the movie

621
00:21:28,630 --> 00:21:25,520
flip side

622
00:21:31,430 --> 00:21:28,640
by richard martini

623
00:21:33,669 --> 00:21:31,440
interesting guy he uh got very

624
00:21:35,669 --> 00:21:33,679
interested in the

625
00:21:38,789 --> 00:21:35,679
past life aggression in between lives

626
00:21:40,789 --> 00:21:38,799
regression of newton

627
00:21:43,029 --> 00:21:40,799
and he actually went to

628
00:21:45,830 --> 00:21:43,039
a weekend retreat where

629
00:21:48,549 --> 00:21:45,840
he and other people were going through a

630
00:21:50,870 --> 00:21:48,559
past life in between life

631
00:21:52,950 --> 00:21:50,880
regression with the newton institute

632
00:21:53,909 --> 00:21:52,960
kind of people but the anecdote that he

633
00:21:56,549 --> 00:21:53,919
tells that

634
00:21:59,270 --> 00:21:56,559
it always sticks in my head is this

635
00:22:02,230 --> 00:21:59,280
woman is regressed

636
00:22:05,270 --> 00:22:02,240
to a past life and she remembers a life

637
00:22:07,270 --> 00:22:05,280
when she was in the holocaust in the co

638
00:22:09,990 --> 00:22:07,280
in a concentration camp and she

639
00:22:11,190 --> 00:22:10,000
remembers being led to

640
00:22:13,590 --> 00:22:11,200
her death

641
00:22:15,909 --> 00:22:13,600
she realizes that the showers aren't

642
00:22:17,990 --> 00:22:15,919
showers she knows

643
00:22:20,149 --> 00:22:18,000
that she is going to die and all these

644
00:22:21,669 --> 00:22:20,159
people are going to die and immediately

645
00:22:23,669 --> 00:22:21,679
the thought rises in her what should i

646
00:22:25,190 --> 00:22:23,679
do should i attack the guards maybe i

647
00:22:27,190 --> 00:22:25,200
should at least take somebody with me

648
00:22:28,310 --> 00:22:27,200
you know all the thoughts that i think

649
00:22:30,789 --> 00:22:28,320
so many people who hear about these

650
00:22:32,310 --> 00:22:30,799
holocaust stories they all go why didn't

651
00:22:35,110 --> 00:22:32,320
they do this why didn't they you know

652
00:22:36,710 --> 00:22:35,120
it's like one that's impossible you know

653
00:22:40,630 --> 00:22:36,720
people don't realize how impossible it

654
00:22:43,190 --> 00:22:40,640
is but the other aspect of it is hurt

655
00:22:45,110 --> 00:22:43,200
she comes to the sense that

656
00:22:46,789 --> 00:22:45,120
i will stay with my people

657
00:22:48,789 --> 00:22:46,799
this life may end

658
00:22:51,190 --> 00:22:48,799
this life will end i will walk into the

659
00:22:52,470 --> 00:22:51,200
gas chamber i will be killed and this

660
00:22:54,789 --> 00:22:52,480
life will end

661
00:22:56,630 --> 00:22:54,799
further in her regression

662
00:22:57,590 --> 00:22:56,640
she remembers dying

663
00:23:00,789 --> 00:22:57,600
and

664
00:23:02,630 --> 00:23:00,799
remembers the feeling of

665
00:23:04,230 --> 00:23:02,640
empathy for

666
00:23:05,750 --> 00:23:04,240
the perpetrators

667
00:23:08,870 --> 00:23:05,760
for the guards

668
00:23:10,710 --> 00:23:08,880
and feeling at that deep soul level that

669
00:23:11,510 --> 00:23:10,720
we're talking about

670
00:23:13,430 --> 00:23:11,520
that

671
00:23:15,750 --> 00:23:13,440
her suffering was over

672
00:23:18,230 --> 00:23:15,760
and their suffering had just begun

673
00:23:19,669 --> 00:23:18,240
and their suffering to a certain extent

674
00:23:24,870 --> 00:23:19,679
would

675
00:23:25,909 --> 00:23:24,880
than her suffering of just ending this

676
00:23:29,350 --> 00:23:25,919
life

677
00:23:33,029 --> 00:23:29,360
i'm not suggesting that we let them

678
00:23:36,950 --> 00:23:33,039
roll us up and just destroy us with the

679
00:23:38,070 --> 00:23:36,960
pandemic that's not my thing

680
00:23:40,630 --> 00:23:38,080
i'm just

681
00:23:42,710 --> 00:23:40,640
kind of calling into question

682
00:23:44,149 --> 00:23:42,720
how looking at this from a spiritual

683
00:23:47,190 --> 00:23:44,159
perspective

684
00:23:49,269 --> 00:23:47,200
might cause us to really put first what

685
00:23:51,350 --> 00:23:49,279
you're saying which is what does it mean

686
00:23:53,510 --> 00:23:51,360
to love everybody

687
00:23:56,950 --> 00:23:53,520
what does it mean to love

688
00:23:59,110 --> 00:23:56,960
anthony fauci and bill gates and whoever

689
00:24:01,510 --> 00:23:59,120
else you want to hate on or or in

690
00:24:04,470 --> 00:24:01,520
pizzagate james elefantis and john

691
00:24:05,269 --> 00:24:04,480
podesta what does it mean to truly

692
00:24:08,310 --> 00:24:05,279
not

693
00:24:09,430 --> 00:24:08,320
agree with or support what those people

694
00:24:11,590 --> 00:24:09,440
are doing

695
00:24:13,269 --> 00:24:11,600
but to realize that

696
00:24:15,830 --> 00:24:13,279
you know

697
00:24:18,390 --> 00:24:15,840
it is on some level

698
00:24:21,190 --> 00:24:18,400
not in our hands to

699
00:24:24,470 --> 00:24:21,200
administer the justice that's will come

700
00:24:26,549 --> 00:24:24,480
to them any thoughts on any of that

701
00:24:28,470 --> 00:24:26,559
yeah so actually in my second book an

702
00:24:29,990 --> 00:24:28,480
end to upside down living i talk about

703
00:24:31,510 --> 00:24:30,000
ten approaches for living from the

704
00:24:33,669 --> 00:24:31,520
spiritual perspective and there is a

705
00:24:35,029 --> 00:24:33,679
section on forgiveness and i referenced

706
00:24:36,789 --> 00:24:35,039
an interview that rick archer did on

707
00:24:37,909 --> 00:24:36,799
buddha at the gas pump a woman who was

708
00:24:39,830 --> 00:24:37,919
being murdered

709
00:24:41,990 --> 00:24:39,840
and there was a mystical experience that

710
00:24:44,390 --> 00:24:42,000
happened while she was being murdered

711
00:24:46,549 --> 00:24:44,400
where the attempted murderer

712
00:24:48,710 --> 00:24:46,559
effectively had an awakening and saw

713
00:24:49,990 --> 00:24:48,720
what he was doing and realized and ended

714
00:24:52,230 --> 00:24:50,000
up letting her go

715
00:24:54,950 --> 00:24:52,240
um but in that process

716
00:24:56,149 --> 00:24:54,960
she felt she was able to experience

717
00:24:58,230 --> 00:24:56,159
his pain

718
00:24:59,510 --> 00:24:58,240
and was able to have forgiveness for him

719
00:25:00,870 --> 00:24:59,520
even though he was

720
00:25:02,390 --> 00:25:00,880
murdering her

721
00:25:03,750 --> 00:25:02,400
so i i think that aligns with what

722
00:25:05,750 --> 00:25:03,760
you're saying and i agree with you that

723
00:25:07,830 --> 00:25:05,760
there's a balance though that i try to

724
00:25:10,630 --> 00:25:07,840
hold and i struggle with which is

725
00:25:12,789 --> 00:25:10,640
accepting that reality of having empathy

726
00:25:14,710 --> 00:25:12,799
for all even those who are

727
00:25:16,789 --> 00:25:14,720
acting in ways that are contrary to

728
00:25:18,470 --> 00:25:16,799
unconditional love and at the same time

729
00:25:20,149 --> 00:25:18,480
maintaining boundaries

730
00:25:22,390 --> 00:25:20,159
and saying that this is not aligned with

731
00:25:25,190 --> 00:25:22,400
how i look at life and therefore there

732
00:25:28,070 --> 00:25:25,200
have to be boundaries so it's not

733
00:25:32,070 --> 00:25:28,080
it's less of a victim mentality i think

734
00:25:34,549 --> 00:25:32,080
i i i like that how would that look like

735
00:25:37,750 --> 00:25:34,559
from this spiritual perspective and

736
00:25:40,070 --> 00:25:37,760
still holding our ground and saying

737
00:25:41,909 --> 00:25:40,080
no this isn't right we will not stand

738
00:25:43,510 --> 00:25:41,919
for this what does that look like to you

739
00:25:45,750 --> 00:25:43,520
mark

740
00:25:48,310 --> 00:25:45,760
i think it depends on the situation

741
00:25:50,230 --> 00:25:48,320
and it depends on the nature of of what

742
00:25:51,830 --> 00:25:50,240
the perpetrators are doing

743
00:25:53,909 --> 00:25:51,840
so i'm going to leave that general in

744
00:25:56,549 --> 00:25:53,919
the general case because it i think it

745
00:25:57,669 --> 00:25:56,559
depends in some cases it might be

746
00:25:59,510 --> 00:25:57,679
for example if there are medical

747
00:26:01,830 --> 00:25:59,520
interventions that you don't agree with

748
00:26:03,269 --> 00:26:01,840
is to say no or if there are policies

749
00:26:05,190 --> 00:26:03,279
that come down from government that one

750
00:26:07,110 --> 00:26:05,200
finds immoral to say i'm not going to do

751
00:26:09,269 --> 00:26:07,120
that and i mean the extreme version is

752
00:26:11,590 --> 00:26:09,279
nazi germany where the law was to do

753
00:26:13,110 --> 00:26:11,600
things that were horrible to jews and

754
00:26:14,390 --> 00:26:13,120
minorities

755
00:26:15,990 --> 00:26:14,400
the law was

756
00:26:17,430 --> 00:26:16,000
something that many people found immoral

757
00:26:18,789 --> 00:26:17,440
and some people said no and some people

758
00:26:20,070 --> 00:26:18,799
say yes

759
00:26:21,830 --> 00:26:20,080
right so

760
00:26:25,750 --> 00:26:21,840
the slippery slope thing though right i

761
00:26:28,710 --> 00:26:25,760
mean there's been a lot of analogies to

762
00:26:31,269 --> 00:26:28,720
every day we hear the the parallels with

763
00:26:33,190 --> 00:26:31,279
nazi germany nazi germany it's

764
00:26:35,269 --> 00:26:33,200
it to a certain extent it's a thing we

765
00:26:37,269 --> 00:26:35,279
always hear it's like

766
00:26:39,430 --> 00:26:37,279
way way too much play for

767
00:26:41,510 --> 00:26:39,440
nazi germany there

768
00:26:43,590 --> 00:26:41,520
they deserve every bit they get but we

769
00:26:45,990 --> 00:26:43,600
can spread the hate around too because

770
00:26:48,070 --> 00:26:46,000
there's a lot of people throughout

771
00:26:50,390 --> 00:26:48,080
history that have done the same thing

772
00:26:52,950 --> 00:26:50,400
and have done it in modern history as

773
00:26:55,029 --> 00:26:52,960
well but sticking to the nazi parallel

774
00:26:57,909 --> 00:26:55,039
because it's easy

775
00:27:00,549 --> 00:26:57,919
we're burning books now i mean the new

776
00:27:02,870 --> 00:27:00,559
ceo of twitter who just you know just

777
00:27:05,110 --> 00:27:02,880
came out and said i i'm not obligated by

778
00:27:07,110 --> 00:27:05,120
the first amendment that's not

779
00:27:10,710 --> 00:27:07,120
i don't have to do any of that and

780
00:27:13,830 --> 00:27:10,720
you're a silicon valley guy i know

781
00:27:16,950 --> 00:27:13,840
this stuff i just interviewed a guy from

782
00:27:19,510 --> 00:27:16,960
google ai guy and he says hey man we got

783
00:27:20,950 --> 00:27:19,520
a trillion searches a day or some kind

784
00:27:23,269 --> 00:27:20,960
of crazy number like that he goes we got

785
00:27:25,590 --> 00:27:23,279
a scale problem you know as a tech guy

786
00:27:27,430 --> 00:27:25,600
or close to tech guy ip guy you

787
00:27:30,070 --> 00:27:27,440
understand all the complexities that

788
00:27:32,470 --> 00:27:30,080
they are dealing with at the same time

789
00:27:34,710 --> 00:27:32,480
they are at the they are at the heart of

790
00:27:37,510 --> 00:27:34,720
this evil in a way that

791
00:27:40,630 --> 00:27:37,520
we can't quite pull apart i mean

792
00:27:42,070 --> 00:27:40,640
it seems to suggest that they're

793
00:27:43,510 --> 00:27:42,080
part of this

794
00:27:45,669 --> 00:27:43,520
system that

795
00:27:47,909 --> 00:27:45,679
could potentially be

796
00:27:49,510 --> 00:27:47,919
all that nazism that we're all so

797
00:27:51,350 --> 00:27:49,520
worried about and let me make sure i put

798
00:27:53,669 --> 00:27:51,360
a point on that so people don't think

799
00:27:56,630 --> 00:27:53,679
i'm just kind of rambling around

800
00:27:59,350 --> 00:27:56,640
we're burning books right now today

801
00:28:02,149 --> 00:27:59,360
essentially right when you're banning

802
00:28:05,029 --> 00:28:02,159
people de-platforming people people who

803
00:28:06,710 --> 00:28:05,039
have phds have a long history of

804
00:28:09,750 --> 00:28:06,720
publishing in peer-reviewed medical

805
00:28:12,549 --> 00:28:09,760
journals and they're pulled from

806
00:28:14,630 --> 00:28:12,559
all the platforms being youtube twitter

807
00:28:18,310 --> 00:28:14,640
facebook which

808
00:28:21,990 --> 00:28:18,320
for as long as we've been a country

809
00:28:24,470 --> 00:28:22,000
would be considered protected under the

810
00:28:25,830 --> 00:28:24,480
category of freedom of the press you

811
00:28:27,830 --> 00:28:25,840
know it's just a different technology

812
00:28:29,590 --> 00:28:27,840
but we would have always always

813
00:28:31,830 --> 00:28:29,600
considered that

814
00:28:34,070 --> 00:28:31,840
we're in different territory and that

815
00:28:37,029 --> 00:28:34,080
territory looks a lot like

816
00:28:39,350 --> 00:28:37,039
what we're talking about here so

817
00:28:42,230 --> 00:28:39,360
i don't know you know how far are we

818
00:28:43,510 --> 00:28:42,240
down that that road

819
00:28:45,430 --> 00:28:43,520
well first i want to comment on what you

820
00:28:46,950 --> 00:28:45,440
said about nazi germany i agree that

821
00:28:48,470 --> 00:28:46,960
it's one of many examples and there are

822
00:28:50,470 --> 00:28:48,480
contemporary examples we can point to

823
00:28:51,590 --> 00:28:50,480
that aren't just discussed as much but i

824
00:28:53,190 --> 00:28:51,600
like to mention it because it's an

825
00:28:54,149 --> 00:28:53,200
extreme that many people acknowledge as

826
00:28:55,909 --> 00:28:54,159
real

827
00:28:58,549 --> 00:28:55,919
but we shouldn't forget the others

828
00:29:00,389 --> 00:28:58,559
where are we on the spectrum of you know

829
00:29:03,029 --> 00:29:00,399
on liberty

830
00:29:04,149 --> 00:29:03,039
liberty is eroding at an alarming rate i

831
00:29:05,669 --> 00:29:04,159
mean

832
00:29:08,070 --> 00:29:05,679
i felt there was urgency to write this

833
00:29:10,230 --> 00:29:08,080
book and it's not a comfortable topic to

834
00:29:12,070 --> 00:29:10,240
be talking about and it's i'm sure many

835
00:29:13,269 --> 00:29:12,080
people will have differing opinions on

836
00:29:14,870 --> 00:29:13,279
what i've written

837
00:29:16,230 --> 00:29:14,880
but i felt like it was necessary anyway

838
00:29:17,350 --> 00:29:16,240
because of exactly what you're saying

839
00:29:19,750 --> 00:29:17,360
alex that

840
00:29:21,669 --> 00:29:19,760
everywhere we look there is

841
00:29:23,990 --> 00:29:21,679
an ideology and if you don't agree with

842
00:29:25,669 --> 00:29:24,000
that ideology whether it's medically or

843
00:29:27,430 --> 00:29:25,679
politically or anything

844
00:29:29,750 --> 00:29:27,440
you're a conspiracy theorist you're

845
00:29:33,029 --> 00:29:29,760
spreading dangerous misinformation which

846
00:29:34,789 --> 00:29:33,039
these are very anti-scientific ideas the

847
00:29:37,029 --> 00:29:34,799
the exploration of science or anything

848
00:29:38,310 --> 00:29:37,039
in the world is to explore and to

849
00:29:39,990 --> 00:29:38,320
explore many different theories and

850
00:29:42,070 --> 00:29:40,000
right now there's less and less of an

851
00:29:43,350 --> 00:29:42,080
ability to do that

852
00:29:45,990 --> 00:29:43,360
one of the things i looked at in this

853
00:29:47,350 --> 00:29:46,000
book is the impact of

854
00:29:49,590 --> 00:29:47,360
mind control

855
00:29:51,430 --> 00:29:49,600
propaganda brainwashing through multiple

856
00:29:53,350 --> 00:29:51,440
venues so mainstream media but also

857
00:29:54,710 --> 00:29:53,360
through social media and tech because if

858
00:29:56,789 --> 00:29:54,720
we think about the way in which we view

859
00:29:58,310 --> 00:29:56,799
the world and the way

860
00:30:00,149 --> 00:29:58,320
the reasons that we have opinions about

861
00:30:01,669 --> 00:30:00,159
the world are informed by

862
00:30:03,590 --> 00:30:01,679
what we personally experience which is

863
00:30:05,510 --> 00:30:03,600
very limited and what we're told and

864
00:30:09,430 --> 00:30:05,520
that comes about through social media

865
00:30:10,870 --> 00:30:09,440
the news books we read and if what we

866
00:30:12,710 --> 00:30:10,880
can research outside of our own

867
00:30:14,470 --> 00:30:12,720
individual experience is being limited

868
00:30:15,990 --> 00:30:14,480
intentionally where certain ideas no we

869
00:30:17,269 --> 00:30:16,000
can't talk about that that's going to be

870
00:30:19,350 --> 00:30:17,279
censored that's going to be shadow

871
00:30:21,430 --> 00:30:19,360
banned where you can't see it as easily

872
00:30:23,750 --> 00:30:21,440
then there is a capacity to alter

873
00:30:25,909 --> 00:30:23,760
consciousness on a mass scale

874
00:30:27,909 --> 00:30:25,919
a capacity to literally mind control and

875
00:30:29,830 --> 00:30:27,919
brainwash people but from the the

876
00:30:31,750 --> 00:30:29,840
skeptical lens it's allow its

877
00:30:33,510 --> 00:30:31,760
consciousness manipulation you are

878
00:30:36,230 --> 00:30:33,520
shifting people's

879
00:30:37,990 --> 00:30:36,240
consciousness in a certain direction and

880
00:30:39,590 --> 00:30:38,000
if all reality is just consciousness

881
00:30:41,110 --> 00:30:39,600
what happens when many people put their

882
00:30:42,389 --> 00:30:41,120
consciousness in a certain direction

883
00:30:44,230 --> 00:30:42,399
this gets into phenomena like

884
00:30:46,070 --> 00:30:44,240
psychokinesis the idea that mind can

885
00:30:47,750 --> 00:30:46,080
impact matter at a physical level and

886
00:30:49,430 --> 00:30:47,760
that's how i look at it is

887
00:30:51,190 --> 00:30:49,440
that's my one of my biggest concerns is

888
00:30:52,630 --> 00:30:51,200
that you can take good people move their

889
00:30:54,870 --> 00:30:52,640
consciousness in a certain direction and

890
00:30:56,470 --> 00:30:54,880
it can shape our world in a way that is

891
00:30:58,389 --> 00:30:56,480
not favorable

892
00:31:00,230 --> 00:30:58,399
i want to pick up on a couple of topics

893
00:31:02,950 --> 00:31:00,240
you just mentioned

894
00:31:05,430 --> 00:31:02,960
mind control and the assault on science

895
00:31:08,549 --> 00:31:05,440
would be two of the ones that i think

896
00:31:10,710 --> 00:31:08,559
are critical to kind of flesh out here

897
00:31:11,509 --> 00:31:10,720
but i gotta start with the first one in

898
00:31:17,430 --> 00:31:11,519
that

899
00:31:19,909 --> 00:31:17,440
this community the frontier science i'll

900
00:31:22,310 --> 00:31:19,919
call it community you're a board member

901
00:31:24,230 --> 00:31:22,320
of ions i should mention and you're kind

902
00:31:25,590 --> 00:31:24,240
of plugged in and you mentioned like

903
00:31:26,789 --> 00:31:25,600
bruce grayson

904
00:31:28,549 --> 00:31:26,799
boy

905
00:31:31,509 --> 00:31:28,559
i just interviewed bruce grayson on one

906
00:31:34,389 --> 00:31:31,519
hand fantastic who can't love

907
00:31:36,389 --> 00:31:34,399
the tremendous tremendous contribution

908
00:31:38,549 --> 00:31:36,399
that bruce grayson has made and those

909
00:31:41,990 --> 00:31:38,559
people at uva have made but at the same

910
00:31:44,070 --> 00:31:42,000
time wake the up i mean i kind of

911
00:31:46,470 --> 00:31:44,080
really pushed him on

912
00:31:49,110 --> 00:31:46,480
the conspiracy surrounding near-death

913
00:31:51,029 --> 00:31:49,120
experience and you know you can go and

914
00:31:53,430 --> 00:31:51,039
everyone can sit around in a clap hands

915
00:31:55,669 --> 00:31:53,440
and oh wow you guys have done so much

916
00:31:57,990 --> 00:31:55,679
screw that you haven't done anything you

917
00:32:00,389 --> 00:31:58,000
haven't made any real dent you haven't

918
00:32:03,350 --> 00:32:00,399
moved it but what really pissed me off

919
00:32:05,389 --> 00:32:03,360
is to even suggest to bruce

920
00:32:07,509 --> 00:32:05,399
that there is some

921
00:32:08,630 --> 00:32:07,519
conspiratorial nature

922
00:32:11,509 --> 00:32:08,640
to the

923
00:32:13,990 --> 00:32:11,519
uh sidelining of near-death experience

924
00:32:16,549 --> 00:32:14,000
to the to the quote-unquote uh

925
00:32:19,350 --> 00:32:16,559
skepticism about near-death experience

926
00:32:22,470 --> 00:32:19,360
to me that has been made patently

927
00:32:25,269 --> 00:32:22,480
obvious over the last 10 years but the

928
00:32:27,750 --> 00:32:25,279
real trump card on it is it's now made

929
00:32:30,549 --> 00:32:27,760
even more obvious by what they did with

930
00:32:32,789 --> 00:32:30,559
kovid but if you can't call it if you're

931
00:32:35,269 --> 00:32:32,799
on frontier science and you can't call

932
00:32:37,669 --> 00:32:35,279
it and you know after i after i

933
00:32:39,990 --> 00:32:37,679
interviewed gr grayson i interviewed

934
00:32:42,070 --> 00:32:40,000
evan alexander and he was at least

935
00:32:44,149 --> 00:32:42,080
willing to come a lot closer to

936
00:32:47,190 --> 00:32:44,159
acknowledging it because he

937
00:32:50,149 --> 00:32:47,200
lived it right he lived sam harris

938
00:32:52,950 --> 00:32:50,159
coming out of left field saying this guy

939
00:32:54,110 --> 00:32:52,960
is completely lacks any credibility

940
00:32:56,950 --> 00:32:54,120
while he's a

941
00:32:59,110 --> 00:32:56,960
neuroscientist a neurosurgeon at harvard

942
00:33:01,430 --> 00:32:59,120
medical school and sam harris is a kind

943
00:33:04,789 --> 00:33:01,440
of a nobody intellectually to be

944
00:33:07,509 --> 00:33:04,799
throwing stones it's not accidental it

945
00:33:08,630 --> 00:33:07,519
is systematic it is part of this mind

946
00:33:10,470 --> 00:33:08,640
control

947
00:33:12,870 --> 00:33:10,480
project that's been going on part of the

948
00:33:15,110 --> 00:33:12,880
disinformation project that's been going

949
00:33:17,269 --> 00:33:15,120
on forever and to a certain extent i

950
00:33:21,350 --> 00:33:17,279
guess the reason i get so hyped up about

951
00:33:23,830 --> 00:33:21,360
it is that if we can't call it from what

952
00:33:26,230 --> 00:33:23,840
we've seen in the last 10 years in the

953
00:33:28,389 --> 00:33:26,240
frontier science consciousness community

954
00:33:30,149 --> 00:33:28,399
if we we were

955
00:33:32,549 --> 00:33:30,159
we were there

956
00:33:35,029 --> 00:33:32,559
we were the frontiersmen arrows in the

957
00:33:37,350 --> 00:33:35,039
front and arrows in the back we should

958
00:33:39,590 --> 00:33:37,360
be the people that said look

959
00:33:43,190 --> 00:33:39,600
here's how it happened back then and

960
00:33:45,190 --> 00:33:43,200
here's how it's being amped up 10 times

961
00:33:47,430 --> 00:33:45,200
in terms of the co-opting of science

962
00:33:50,070 --> 00:33:47,440
really the just complete assault on

963
00:33:52,630 --> 00:33:50,080
science so i kind of covered a lot there

964
00:33:54,710 --> 00:33:52,640
in the rant but i do want to kind of

965
00:33:57,190 --> 00:33:54,720
call out the the frontier science people

966
00:33:59,190 --> 00:33:57,200
for not getting on board with the with

967
00:34:01,029 --> 00:33:59,200
the conspiracy stuff jesus christ yeah

968
00:34:03,029 --> 00:34:01,039
i'll just leave it i'll leave it at that

969
00:34:05,990 --> 00:34:03,039
i'm getting to work

970
00:34:08,069 --> 00:34:06,000
well i hear you alex i think it's uh

971
00:34:09,270 --> 00:34:08,079
there seems to be a divide i've noticed

972
00:34:10,470 --> 00:34:09,280
not only in the frontier science

973
00:34:12,629 --> 00:34:10,480
community but also in the spiritual

974
00:34:15,190 --> 00:34:12,639
community and the way that i look at it

975
00:34:16,869 --> 00:34:15,200
at the highest level is that it's

976
00:34:19,990 --> 00:34:16,879
perhaps an inability and an

977
00:34:22,550 --> 00:34:20,000
unwillingness to recognize evil and the

978
00:34:23,909 --> 00:34:22,560
hiddenness of evil to say well i don't

979
00:34:25,589 --> 00:34:23,919
see how that could happen i can't

980
00:34:28,069 --> 00:34:25,599
understand the mechanism for how someone

981
00:34:29,669 --> 00:34:28,079
could do that therefore no it must be

982
00:34:31,190 --> 00:34:29,679
the we'll take the benign explanation

983
00:34:32,550 --> 00:34:31,200
which is that it's just that people

984
00:34:34,069 --> 00:34:32,560
can't shift their paradigms which is

985
00:34:35,349 --> 00:34:34,079
part of it too

986
00:34:36,550 --> 00:34:35,359
there are probably scientists out there

987
00:34:38,230 --> 00:34:36,560
who just can't shift their paradigms

988
00:34:40,869 --> 00:34:38,240
they're not part of a psyop and they

989
00:34:43,430 --> 00:34:40,879
just are that's how they are but this

990
00:34:45,190 --> 00:34:43,440
seems to be systematic the way in which

991
00:34:47,190 --> 00:34:45,200
there are there are six sigma

992
00:34:48,869 --> 00:34:47,200
statistical results and dean raiden

993
00:34:50,149 --> 00:34:48,879
talks about this in his book real magic

994
00:34:51,829 --> 00:34:50,159
which was endorsed by two nobel

995
00:34:53,669 --> 00:34:51,839
prize-winning scientists in the

996
00:34:55,589 --> 00:34:53,679
categories of telepathy remote viewing

997
00:34:57,030 --> 00:34:55,599
precognition and psychokinesis that

998
00:34:59,270 --> 00:34:57,040
means the odds against chance are more

999
00:35:01,030 --> 00:34:59,280
than a billion to one meaning in any

1000
00:35:02,630 --> 00:35:01,040
other area of science that's a real

1001
00:35:04,950 --> 00:35:02,640
phenomenon and yet if you talk about

1002
00:35:06,230 --> 00:35:04,960
psychokinesis if i talk about that to my

1003
00:35:07,990 --> 00:35:06,240
professors from princeton they'd

1004
00:35:09,670 --> 00:35:08,000
probably tell me i'm crazy

1005
00:35:12,550 --> 00:35:09,680
how does that happen there's something

1006
00:35:14,230 --> 00:35:12,560
there's there's a suppression going on

1007
00:35:15,510 --> 00:35:14,240
i would say that i'm probably more open

1008
00:35:17,349 --> 00:35:15,520
to this because of my professional

1009
00:35:19,829 --> 00:35:17,359
experience and maybe you have a similar

1010
00:35:22,390 --> 00:35:19,839
experience alex i saw stuff

1011
00:35:24,870 --> 00:35:22,400
i saw corruption firsthand in a way that

1012
00:35:26,790 --> 00:35:24,880
is was very damaging to people's lives

1013
00:35:28,470 --> 00:35:26,800
so i worked a lot with intellectual

1014
00:35:30,310 --> 00:35:28,480
property i was i was in investment

1015
00:35:32,710 --> 00:35:30,320
banking in new york first which was more

1016
00:35:34,870 --> 00:35:32,720
just traditional stuff not in tech

1017
00:35:37,030 --> 00:35:34,880
but then i worked in the tech space

1018
00:35:38,710 --> 00:35:37,040
where we worked with inventors at large

1019
00:35:41,190 --> 00:35:38,720
companies and small companies who were

1020
00:35:43,270 --> 00:35:41,200
challenging paradigms so an invention a

1021
00:35:45,109 --> 00:35:43,280
patented technology is one that is both

1022
00:35:47,190 --> 00:35:45,119
novel and non-obvious that's the legal

1023
00:35:49,190 --> 00:35:47,200
definition relative to the prior art

1024
00:35:50,550 --> 00:35:49,200
everything that's been done in the past

1025
00:35:52,310 --> 00:35:50,560
meaning that if you get a patent on

1026
00:35:53,910 --> 00:35:52,320
something you're contradicting you're

1027
00:35:54,870 --> 00:35:53,920
contradicting what the mainstream is

1028
00:35:57,190 --> 00:35:54,880
doing

1029
00:35:59,030 --> 00:35:57,200
and there's a lot of pushback often so

1030
00:36:00,870 --> 00:35:59,040
you can imagine what might happen when

1031
00:36:02,630 --> 00:36:00,880
you have some smaller inventors going up

1032
00:36:04,150 --> 00:36:02,640
against big companies

1033
00:36:05,829 --> 00:36:04,160
what could happen

1034
00:36:09,829 --> 00:36:05,839
where the big companies who have lots of

1035
00:36:11,829 --> 00:36:09,839
power can manipulate the system so

1036
00:36:13,030 --> 00:36:11,839
i saw it i've seen the media manipulate

1037
00:36:14,950 --> 00:36:13,040
things i've seen

1038
00:36:18,470 --> 00:36:14,960
the judicial system get manipulated all

1039
00:36:20,150 --> 00:36:18,480
up and down um the power structures so

1040
00:36:21,270 --> 00:36:20,160
i'm more open to it and then i saw the

1041
00:36:22,550 --> 00:36:21,280
same thing when i started researching

1042
00:36:24,230 --> 00:36:22,560
consciousness i'm like what's going on

1043
00:36:25,430 --> 00:36:24,240
here it's the same thing they're calling

1044
00:36:26,870 --> 00:36:25,440
these people pseudoscientists and

1045
00:36:28,950 --> 00:36:26,880
there's tons of evidence to suggest that

1046
00:36:30,950 --> 00:36:28,960
they're actual scientists doing probably

1047
00:36:32,790 --> 00:36:30,960
more rigorous science because

1048
00:36:34,390 --> 00:36:32,800
there's so much scrutiny

1049
00:36:36,630 --> 00:36:34,400
and then the whole covet thing happens

1050
00:36:38,069 --> 00:36:36,640
and it's the same thing a person has a

1051
00:36:39,670 --> 00:36:38,079
somewhat benign observation that

1052
00:36:41,670 --> 00:36:39,680
contradicts the mainstream narrative

1053
00:36:43,910 --> 00:36:41,680
they're booted off youtube so there's

1054
00:36:46,550 --> 00:36:43,920
begins to be a pattern and

1055
00:36:48,390 --> 00:36:46,560
one has to recognize that not everyone

1056
00:36:50,150 --> 00:36:48,400
is moral i think most people are good

1057
00:36:52,470 --> 00:36:50,160
that's been my observation

1058
00:36:55,270 --> 00:36:52,480
but some people are at the extreme end

1059
00:36:57,349 --> 00:36:55,280
psychopathic which is a psychological

1060
00:36:58,710 --> 00:36:57,359
phenomenon in which a person doesn't

1061
00:37:00,950 --> 00:36:58,720
understand empathy

1062
00:37:03,270 --> 00:37:00,960
and just wants power and at a spiritual

1063
00:37:05,030 --> 00:37:03,280
level this could relate to dark forces

1064
00:37:06,390 --> 00:37:05,040
that's how i look at it but at a more

1065
00:37:08,710 --> 00:37:06,400
mainstream level that everyone can

1066
00:37:11,510 --> 00:37:08,720
acknowledge psychopathy is a real thing

1067
00:37:13,270 --> 00:37:11,520
and most of us can't relate to it so one

1068
00:37:14,870 --> 00:37:13,280
almost has to go into the mind of evil

1069
00:37:16,710 --> 00:37:14,880
to try to understand it and a lot of

1070
00:37:18,310 --> 00:37:16,720
people i think don't want to do that or

1071
00:37:20,150 --> 00:37:18,320
they're not they've never done it before

1072
00:37:21,910 --> 00:37:20,160
and they're happy living their lives as

1073
00:37:23,589 --> 00:37:21,920
is and i want to just close with one

1074
00:37:26,069 --> 00:37:23,599
anecdote before i let you respond a

1075
00:37:27,430 --> 00:37:26,079
friend of mine well educated said to me

1076
00:37:28,710 --> 00:37:27,440
when we were when i was first getting

1077
00:37:30,150 --> 00:37:28,720
into consciousness research and i was

1078
00:37:31,589 --> 00:37:30,160
sending a bunch of my friends you know

1079
00:37:32,870 --> 00:37:31,599
the research i was doing and how it

1080
00:37:34,230 --> 00:37:32,880
changed my life oh my goodness like

1081
00:37:36,150 --> 00:37:34,240
there's there's more to life than what i

1082
00:37:38,710 --> 00:37:36,160
thought there's actual meaning and he

1083
00:37:40,470 --> 00:37:38,720
was like mark my life's pretty good

1084
00:37:41,349 --> 00:37:40,480
and i don't want to rock the boat

1085
00:37:42,790 --> 00:37:41,359
so i

1086
00:37:43,910 --> 00:37:42,800
i'm not going to go down this road with

1087
00:37:45,589 --> 00:37:43,920
you i actually think you might be right

1088
00:37:46,870 --> 00:37:45,599
but like i'm not going to go there i

1089
00:37:48,390 --> 00:37:46,880
think a lot of people are in that boat

1090
00:37:49,510 --> 00:37:48,400
especially when it relates to evil

1091
00:37:51,109 --> 00:37:49,520
because the other topics with

1092
00:37:52,230 --> 00:37:51,119
consciousness they're very comforting

1093
00:37:53,910 --> 00:37:52,240
and some people will say yeah it's

1094
00:37:56,790 --> 00:37:53,920
comforting but it's just too much for me

1095
00:37:58,710 --> 00:37:56,800
this stuff is could be terrifying for

1096
00:38:00,390 --> 00:37:58,720
some people and they might say i don't

1097
00:38:02,790 --> 00:38:00,400
want to do it

1098
00:38:05,270 --> 00:38:02,800
i think what you've said is just super

1099
00:38:07,349 --> 00:38:05,280
profound and it directly parallels kind

1100
00:38:09,109 --> 00:38:07,359
of the path that i've been on and if

1101
00:38:11,190 --> 00:38:09,119
we're going to retrace those steps a

1102
00:38:13,030 --> 00:38:11,200
little bit so we look at again our

1103
00:38:14,870 --> 00:38:13,040
frontier science and i'm going to hold

1104
00:38:17,190 --> 00:38:14,880
bruce grayson up as the punching bag

1105
00:38:19,670 --> 00:38:17,200
again and he's done all this fantastic

1106
00:38:21,829 --> 00:38:19,680
work in bringing forth near-death

1107
00:38:24,870 --> 00:38:21,839
experience but when you push him and you

1108
00:38:27,190 --> 00:38:24,880
say bruce this has really been about

1109
00:38:29,030 --> 00:38:27,200
consciousness all along and about

1110
00:38:30,950 --> 00:38:29,040
science being built on this notion that

1111
00:38:33,190 --> 00:38:30,960
you're a biological robot a meaningless

1112
00:38:35,270 --> 00:38:33,200
universe and that has a purpose behind

1113
00:38:37,270 --> 00:38:35,280
it and the purpose is people are easier

1114
00:38:40,310 --> 00:38:37,280
to control if they believe that their

1115
00:38:43,190 --> 00:38:40,320
life has no meaning and even if there's

1116
00:38:45,349 --> 00:38:43,200
all this cultural push in the background

1117
00:38:47,030 --> 00:38:45,359
in terms of religion in terms of wisdom

1118
00:38:49,190 --> 00:38:47,040
traditions and just in terms of human

1119
00:38:51,510 --> 00:38:49,200
nature to say well i know my life isn't

1120
00:38:54,069 --> 00:38:51,520
meaningless that doesn't matter to the

1121
00:38:56,069 --> 00:38:54,079
mind control culture shapers you still

1122
00:38:58,390 --> 00:38:56,079
play that game you still push that

1123
00:39:00,550 --> 00:38:58,400
button just like we see the fear button

1124
00:39:02,230 --> 00:39:00,560
being pushed now and you don't stop

1125
00:39:04,870 --> 00:39:02,240
pushing it you just keep pushing it

1126
00:39:06,950 --> 00:39:04,880
pushing it pushing it so that's what was

1127
00:39:09,190 --> 00:39:06,960
going on that's what i suspect and i

1128
00:39:10,470 --> 00:39:09,200
think you're alluding to is going on

1129
00:39:12,630 --> 00:39:10,480
with the

1130
00:39:14,550 --> 00:39:12,640
you know near-death experience well

1131
00:39:17,510 --> 00:39:14,560
we're not sure you know this because

1132
00:39:18,950 --> 00:39:17,520
it's a direct assault on this idea not

1133
00:39:20,310 --> 00:39:18,960
just about the epiphenomenon of the

1134
00:39:21,829 --> 00:39:20,320
brain which immediately goes i don't

1135
00:39:23,829 --> 00:39:21,839
care about epiphany on the brain i don't

1136
00:39:24,710 --> 00:39:23,839
even know what it means what it really

1137
00:39:27,349 --> 00:39:24,720
means

1138
00:39:29,910 --> 00:39:27,359
is that they're trying to tell you that

1139
00:39:33,990 --> 00:39:29,920
you are meaningless

1140
00:39:38,230 --> 00:39:34,000
that you your soul doesn't really have a

1141
00:39:40,150 --> 00:39:38,240
a play in this larger game of your life

1142
00:39:41,430 --> 00:39:40,160
and then i would tie that back to what

1143
00:39:43,829 --> 00:39:41,440
you said about

1144
00:39:45,829 --> 00:39:43,839
how science plays that out and how

1145
00:39:48,310 --> 00:39:45,839
science wants to play the game and they

1146
00:39:50,390 --> 00:39:48,320
say dean rayden god bless dean braden

1147
00:39:51,030 --> 00:39:50,400
six sigma result one after another you

1148
00:39:55,270 --> 00:39:51,040
know

1149
00:39:57,270 --> 00:39:55,280
put a all that kind of stuff as quantum

1150
00:39:59,589 --> 00:39:57,280
doug told me on the show you know a lot

1151
00:40:01,910 --> 00:39:59,599
of people have gotten nobel prizes for

1152
00:40:04,150 --> 00:40:01,920
less but i'm digressing slightly because

1153
00:40:06,230 --> 00:40:04,160
what i want to bring up also is part of

1154
00:40:08,230 --> 00:40:06,240
this and i think it has to all be laid

1155
00:40:10,710 --> 00:40:08,240
out so that we can understand how the

1156
00:40:11,750 --> 00:40:10,720
game is being played because some of it

1157
00:40:13,829 --> 00:40:11,760
is

1158
00:40:15,510 --> 00:40:13,839
go along to get along in science and

1159
00:40:17,670 --> 00:40:15,520
this is the path of least resistance and

1160
00:40:20,470 --> 00:40:17,680
we get it and do i really want to sit

1161
00:40:22,150 --> 00:40:20,480
down at that dinner i'm going to with

1162
00:40:24,230 --> 00:40:22,160
all my friends

1163
00:40:25,829 --> 00:40:24,240
in the psychiatry department at

1164
00:40:27,430 --> 00:40:25,839
university of virginia do i really want

1165
00:40:29,670 --> 00:40:27,440
to feel that uncomfortable that they're

1166
00:40:31,670 --> 00:40:29,680
all looking at me because i really came

1167
00:40:33,829 --> 00:40:31,680
out and said what i really believed and

1168
00:40:36,630 --> 00:40:33,839
i didn't couch it in all this careful

1169
00:40:38,950 --> 00:40:36,640
maybe kind of crazy middle ground kind

1170
00:40:41,349 --> 00:40:38,960
of stuff do i really want to endure that

1171
00:40:43,829 --> 00:40:41,359
you know and do i really want to endure

1172
00:40:46,950 --> 00:40:43,839
then going socially going to the

1173
00:40:48,470 --> 00:40:46,960
club or going to the whatever and having

1174
00:40:50,309 --> 00:40:48,480
the same thing happen

1175
00:40:52,710 --> 00:40:50,319
but the other thing that i think is at

1176
00:40:54,790 --> 00:40:52,720
play is the stockholm syndrome

1177
00:40:57,349 --> 00:40:54,800
which is that you know these people have

1178
00:40:59,829 --> 00:40:57,359
now been in academia they've been

1179
00:41:00,950 --> 00:40:59,839
subjected to this for so long that

1180
00:41:03,270 --> 00:41:00,960
they're kind of

1181
00:41:04,630 --> 00:41:03,280
happy captives within you know they've

1182
00:41:07,750 --> 00:41:04,640
kind of

1183
00:41:10,150 --> 00:41:07,760
been blinded to what their science has

1184
00:41:11,510 --> 00:41:10,160
really told them and again the reason i

1185
00:41:13,670 --> 00:41:11,520
keep bringing it up is because if

1186
00:41:14,550 --> 00:41:13,680
frontier science

1187
00:41:18,309 --> 00:41:14,560
can't

1188
00:41:20,230 --> 00:41:18,319
be the the tip of the spear on this

1189
00:41:22,390 --> 00:41:20,240
we're in trouble i want to give a quick

1190
00:41:24,230 --> 00:41:22,400
shout out to dean before i respond to

1191
00:41:25,829 --> 00:41:24,240
that which was which was important alex

1192
00:41:27,190 --> 00:41:25,839
dean has a new study out which is to me

1193
00:41:28,309 --> 00:41:27,200
totally mind-blowing which shows that

1194
00:41:30,069 --> 00:41:28,319
the mind

1195
00:41:31,430 --> 00:41:30,079
impacts the level of quantum

1196
00:41:32,790 --> 00:41:31,440
entanglement and your listeners might

1197
00:41:34,390 --> 00:41:32,800
not be aware because it just came out so

1198
00:41:35,589 --> 00:41:34,400
i just want to say that's a new study of

1199
00:41:37,589 --> 00:41:35,599
course it will need to be replicated but

1200
00:41:40,470 --> 00:41:37,599
this is game changing stuff would impact

1201
00:41:42,470 --> 00:41:40,480
quantum computing and beyond but

1202
00:41:44,710 --> 00:41:42,480
with regard to

1203
00:41:46,309 --> 00:41:44,720
academia and the scientific community

1204
00:41:48,790 --> 00:41:46,319
and what what should the frontier

1205
00:41:50,390 --> 00:41:48,800
scientists be doing as you were talking

1206
00:41:51,990 --> 00:41:50,400
alex you reminded me of what i was asked

1207
00:41:53,349 --> 00:41:52,000
once on a panel of well how do we get

1208
00:41:54,790 --> 00:41:53,359
this message out there and one of the

1209
00:41:56,470 --> 00:41:54,800
scientists who was on the panel with me

1210
00:41:58,150 --> 00:41:56,480
said well we need to we need to change

1211
00:42:00,069 --> 00:41:58,160
the education system and get the message

1212
00:42:01,750 --> 00:42:00,079
out there which i agree with and i was

1213
00:42:02,630 --> 00:42:01,760
at my answer was

1214
00:42:04,710 --> 00:42:02,640
it's going to have to come through the

1215
00:42:06,230 --> 00:42:04,720
media because there's plenty of science

1216
00:42:07,829 --> 00:42:06,240
and the message just hasn't been

1217
00:42:08,950 --> 00:42:07,839
amplified properly and the more i look

1218
00:42:10,950 --> 00:42:08,960
at the media the more i realize that's

1219
00:42:12,390 --> 00:42:10,960
going to be a challenge so i do think it

1220
00:42:14,630 --> 00:42:12,400
is important that within academia

1221
00:42:16,870 --> 00:42:14,640
there's more vocalization of the stuff

1222
00:42:18,950 --> 00:42:16,880
which it requires bravery and it

1223
00:42:20,390 --> 00:42:18,960
requires taking risk

1224
00:42:21,829 --> 00:42:20,400
people could lose their jobs they might

1225
00:42:24,069 --> 00:42:21,839
not get tenure this is what i hear all

1226
00:42:26,150 --> 00:42:24,079
the time so it's when you have to feed

1227
00:42:28,630 --> 00:42:26,160
your family you have to make trade-offs

1228
00:42:29,990 --> 00:42:28,640
and make make tough decisions so i i

1229
00:42:32,950 --> 00:42:30,000
mean i'm not in that position so it's

1230
00:42:35,270 --> 00:42:32,960
hard for me to say um but i

1231
00:42:37,190 --> 00:42:35,280
i think it needs to come from all angles

1232
00:42:39,829 --> 00:42:37,200
to to get the message out there and i'm

1233
00:42:41,270 --> 00:42:39,839
just going to add real quickly

1234
00:42:42,870 --> 00:42:41,280
being at princeton i i was so

1235
00:42:43,990 --> 00:42:42,880
indoctrinated with materialism i didn't

1236
00:42:46,150 --> 00:42:44,000
know it at the time i didn't know it

1237
00:42:49,510 --> 00:42:46,160
until i deconstructed things afterwards

1238
00:42:51,030 --> 00:42:49,520
it's deeply embedded into

1239
00:42:53,270 --> 00:42:51,040
everything within

1240
00:42:54,950 --> 00:42:53,280
the highest levels of academia it's it's

1241
00:42:56,470 --> 00:42:54,960
almost implied i mean i was technically

1242
00:42:57,829 --> 00:42:56,480
a psychology major even though i started

1243
00:42:59,910 --> 00:42:57,839
in economics and did behavioral

1244
00:43:01,910 --> 00:42:59,920
economics

1245
00:43:03,430 --> 00:43:01,920
i don't remember talking about the hard

1246
00:43:04,950 --> 00:43:03,440
problem of consciousness or

1247
00:43:06,390 --> 00:43:04,960
acknowledging that we don't understand

1248
00:43:08,230 --> 00:43:06,400
consciousness and maybe it doesn't come

1249
00:43:09,589 --> 00:43:08,240
from the brain it was sort of this

1250
00:43:11,270 --> 00:43:09,599
presumption

1251
00:43:12,790 --> 00:43:11,280
throughout everything in the psychology

1252
00:43:15,190 --> 00:43:12,800
department and otherwise

1253
00:43:17,829 --> 00:43:15,200
so there's this this cultural rigidity

1254
00:43:20,630 --> 00:43:17,839
which uh is going to have to shift and i

1255
00:43:24,309 --> 00:43:20,640
don't really know the answer to it

1256
00:43:27,030 --> 00:43:24,319
yeah i agree and so let's talk about

1257
00:43:29,109 --> 00:43:27,040
the book and it's very kind of

1258
00:43:30,470 --> 00:43:29,119
out front i can't imagine how this is

1259
00:43:32,309 --> 00:43:30,480
playing with some of your friends and

1260
00:43:33,349 --> 00:43:32,319
you do sit on these panels and you do

1261
00:43:35,910 --> 00:43:33,359
talk to

1262
00:43:37,670 --> 00:43:35,920
a lot of these people and

1263
00:43:39,190 --> 00:43:37,680
they care what you think but you also

1264
00:43:42,950 --> 00:43:39,200
care what they think

1265
00:43:44,550 --> 00:43:42,960
how is this very conspiratorial book

1266
00:43:46,550 --> 00:43:44,560
and i say it's conspiratorial because

1267
00:43:48,630 --> 00:43:46,560
it's about conspiracy theories

1268
00:43:50,069 --> 00:43:48,640
throughout the book is about conspiracy

1269
00:43:53,030 --> 00:43:50,079
theories the only problem is that

1270
00:43:55,270 --> 00:43:53,040
they're all true you know so

1271
00:43:56,870 --> 00:43:55,280
we can call them that because that's the

1272
00:43:58,550 --> 00:43:56,880
the common term but

1273
00:44:00,230 --> 00:43:58,560
how is this playing for you personally

1274
00:44:01,829 --> 00:44:00,240
it's not making your friends i can't

1275
00:44:04,309 --> 00:44:01,839
imagine

1276
00:44:06,950 --> 00:44:04,319
well we're still early the book was

1277
00:44:08,069 --> 00:44:06,960
released very recently and

1278
00:44:09,190 --> 00:44:08,079
i haven't heard from all that many

1279
00:44:10,950 --> 00:44:09,200
people i've gotten a bunch of really

1280
00:44:12,309 --> 00:44:10,960
positive responses and it might be that

1281
00:44:13,910 --> 00:44:12,319
some of the more negative responses i

1282
00:44:15,510 --> 00:44:13,920
just haven't heard from yet and as the

1283
00:44:17,670 --> 00:44:15,520
book gets out more i'll hear from more

1284
00:44:19,670 --> 00:44:17,680
and more people but i can just say from

1285
00:44:22,790 --> 00:44:19,680
having had conversations with people in

1286
00:44:24,950 --> 00:44:22,800
my network who are much more mainstream

1287
00:44:26,710 --> 00:44:24,960
what i'm talking about is so out there

1288
00:44:28,150 --> 00:44:26,720
it is so contrary to the way they look

1289
00:44:30,230 --> 00:44:28,160
at the world or things that they've even

1290
00:44:32,230 --> 00:44:30,240
considered as possibly true so i would

1291
00:44:33,750 --> 00:44:32,240
imagine there will be pushback

1292
00:44:35,430 --> 00:44:33,760
there was pushback with my first book

1293
00:44:37,190 --> 00:44:35,440
talking about consciousness not coming

1294
00:44:38,950 --> 00:44:37,200
from the brain my second book talking

1295
00:44:40,550 --> 00:44:38,960
about living a spiritual life given

1296
00:44:42,790 --> 00:44:40,560
those assumptions and now this book

1297
00:44:44,230 --> 00:44:42,800
saying we have to rethink government and

1298
00:44:46,630 --> 00:44:44,240
acknowledge the reality of evil and

1299
00:44:48,069 --> 00:44:46,640
conspiracy in light of all that but from

1300
00:44:49,190 --> 00:44:48,079
a spiritual lens personally i have to

1301
00:44:51,589 --> 00:44:49,200
think well

1302
00:44:53,109 --> 00:44:51,599
what's what's my duty why do i exist

1303
00:44:55,589 --> 00:44:53,119
this is my second book and end upside

1304
00:44:57,190 --> 00:44:55,599
down living is a lot about this

1305
00:44:58,550 --> 00:44:57,200
and

1306
00:45:00,550 --> 00:44:58,560
part of the reason i wrote it i wanted

1307
00:45:01,990 --> 00:45:00,560
to share with people

1308
00:45:03,430 --> 00:45:02,000
approaches that have been talked about

1309
00:45:04,870 --> 00:45:03,440
throughout time many great spiritual

1310
00:45:06,550 --> 00:45:04,880
teachers but also to hold myself

1311
00:45:08,630 --> 00:45:06,560
accountable if i'm really going to be on

1312
00:45:11,109 --> 00:45:08,640
the spiritual path

1313
00:45:13,430 --> 00:45:11,119
then i have to live life that way

1314
00:45:15,349 --> 00:45:13,440
so when i look at i mean everything is a

1315
00:45:18,150 --> 00:45:15,359
balance of risk and reward and i have to

1316
00:45:20,390 --> 00:45:18,160
consider reputational damage potentially

1317
00:45:21,430 --> 00:45:20,400
um on from one perspective but from

1318
00:45:23,030 --> 00:45:21,440
other another perspective people might

1319
00:45:25,109 --> 00:45:23,040
really respect it but i have to consider

1320
00:45:27,910 --> 00:45:25,119
all all sides of it to me the net

1321
00:45:30,069 --> 00:45:27,920
benefit is it far outweighs the

1322
00:45:32,790 --> 00:45:30,079
downsides because we're i think in an

1323
00:45:34,470 --> 00:45:32,800
extremely precarious situation globally

1324
00:45:36,790 --> 00:45:34,480
where liberty is being eroded at an

1325
00:45:38,710 --> 00:45:36,800
alarming rate it's disturbing to think

1326
00:45:39,910 --> 00:45:38,720
about what could happen

1327
00:45:42,150 --> 00:45:39,920
and

1328
00:45:43,589 --> 00:45:42,160
i'm in a unique situation where i left

1329
00:45:45,829 --> 00:45:43,599
my firm actually right before the

1330
00:45:47,270 --> 00:45:45,839
pandemic i just didn't feel called to do

1331
00:45:48,950 --> 00:45:47,280
it anymore i didn't know what i was

1332
00:45:50,309 --> 00:45:48,960
going to do next and two books have come

1333
00:45:52,390 --> 00:45:50,319
out but i've been in this situation

1334
00:45:53,829 --> 00:45:52,400
where i'm able to research and spend a

1335
00:45:56,309 --> 00:45:53,839
lot of time focusing on the stuff

1336
00:45:57,990 --> 00:45:56,319
meditating really thinking about it

1337
00:45:59,349 --> 00:45:58,000
and there's a duty i think to share that

1338
00:46:01,430 --> 00:45:59,359
with people for those who are open

1339
00:46:03,030 --> 00:46:01,440
because we don't know what the positive

1340
00:46:04,230 --> 00:46:03,040
impacts can be

1341
00:46:07,270 --> 00:46:04,240
if

1342
00:46:08,870 --> 00:46:07,280
their consciousness in a certain

1343
00:46:10,150 --> 00:46:08,880
direction so i often reference the

1344
00:46:12,069 --> 00:46:10,160
butterfly effect which is a real

1345
00:46:13,990 --> 00:46:12,079
mathematical phenomenon where a

1346
00:46:16,390 --> 00:46:14,000
meteorologist changed one of his

1347
00:46:18,390 --> 00:46:16,400
assumptions by a decimal point

1348
00:46:19,430 --> 00:46:18,400
and his outcome ended up being vastly

1349
00:46:21,190 --> 00:46:19,440
different his weather prediction was

1350
00:46:23,430 --> 00:46:21,200
different so the analogy that people

1351
00:46:25,510 --> 00:46:23,440
often use is a butterfly flapping its

1352
00:46:26,710 --> 00:46:25,520
wings mathematically speaking

1353
00:46:28,550 --> 00:46:26,720
flapping its wings in china

1354
00:46:31,589 --> 00:46:28,560
mathematically speaking

1355
00:46:33,190 --> 00:46:31,599
could create a hurricane in new york

1356
00:46:34,710 --> 00:46:33,200
so

1357
00:46:36,470 --> 00:46:34,720
to me it's it's worth it from that

1358
00:46:38,710 --> 00:46:36,480
perspective

1359
00:46:39,910 --> 00:46:38,720
well i also think kind of from a silver

1360
00:46:41,109 --> 00:46:39,920
lining

1361
00:46:43,270 --> 00:46:41,119
perspective

1362
00:46:45,750 --> 00:46:43,280
i've talked to a lot of people just

1363
00:46:48,550 --> 00:46:45,760
individually that have made changes in

1364
00:46:49,750 --> 00:46:48,560
their life as a result of the pandemic

1365
00:46:53,109 --> 00:46:49,760
that are

1366
00:46:56,550 --> 00:46:53,119
resets resets in a positive way i know

1367
00:46:59,190 --> 00:46:56,560
like for me in a small way you know i'm

1368
00:47:02,710 --> 00:46:59,200
big into yoga and i used to go to i'm

1369
00:47:04,710 --> 00:47:02,720
now i'm outside doing yoga and i made a

1370
00:47:07,190 --> 00:47:04,720
little sign you know well

1371
00:47:09,030 --> 00:47:07,200
come join me and do yoga with me right

1372
00:47:10,390 --> 00:47:09,040
here you know in

1373
00:47:12,470 --> 00:47:10,400
beautiful

1374
00:47:14,470 --> 00:47:12,480
cardiff and solana beach in del mar

1375
00:47:15,510 --> 00:47:14,480
where i live out on the beach and it's

1376
00:47:17,349 --> 00:47:15,520
like

1377
00:47:19,990 --> 00:47:17,359
i would never go back i would never go

1378
00:47:21,430 --> 00:47:20,000
back to being inside of a studio and i'm

1379
00:47:23,030 --> 00:47:21,440
trying to spend more and more time

1380
00:47:25,589 --> 00:47:23,040
outside i've talked to a bunch of people

1381
00:47:28,069 --> 00:47:25,599
who said gee you know this really forced

1382
00:47:30,470 --> 00:47:28,079
my hand in terms of homeschooling and i

1383
00:47:31,750 --> 00:47:30,480
homeschool and now i love it and i would

1384
00:47:35,510 --> 00:47:31,760
never consider

1385
00:47:37,990 --> 00:47:35,520
going back so i i love your

1386
00:47:39,589 --> 00:47:38,000
reminding us about the butterfly effect

1387
00:47:42,390 --> 00:47:39,599
and i also think

1388
00:47:45,190 --> 00:47:42,400
there are some unintended consequences

1389
00:47:47,750 --> 00:47:45,200
very positive unintended consequences

1390
00:47:50,470 --> 00:47:47,760
that have come from people being forced

1391
00:47:52,549 --> 00:47:50,480
to reset and then having enough of a

1392
00:47:53,829 --> 00:47:52,559
spiritual core like you're talking about

1393
00:47:55,750 --> 00:47:53,839
to say okay

1394
00:47:57,430 --> 00:47:55,760
how will i reset

1395
00:48:00,950 --> 00:47:57,440
towards my

1396
00:48:02,470 --> 00:48:00,960
spiritual goals and at the same time in

1397
00:48:05,510 --> 00:48:02,480
alignment with

1398
00:48:07,750 --> 00:48:05,520
pushing back with what i see as

1399
00:48:10,069 --> 00:48:07,760
some bad things that are happening to

1400
00:48:12,390 --> 00:48:10,079
our culture what do you think about the

1401
00:48:14,390 --> 00:48:12,400
silver lining thing

1402
00:48:16,150 --> 00:48:14,400
so i referencing my second book again an

1403
00:48:17,510 --> 00:48:16,160
end upside down living another approach

1404
00:48:20,309 --> 00:48:17,520
in addition to forgiveness i talked

1405
00:48:22,309 --> 00:48:20,319
about for life is non-judgmentalism

1406
00:48:23,990 --> 00:48:22,319
which is the idea that we

1407
00:48:25,349 --> 00:48:24,000
we can't know at a cosmic level why

1408
00:48:26,309 --> 00:48:25,359
things are happening it's just way too

1409
00:48:27,829 --> 00:48:26,319
complicated we don't have the

1410
00:48:29,109 --> 00:48:27,839
helicopter's perspective it's almost

1411
00:48:30,950 --> 00:48:29,119
like we are

1412
00:48:32,710 --> 00:48:30,960
walking through a maze and all we see is

1413
00:48:34,630 --> 00:48:32,720
what's immediately in front of us and we

1414
00:48:36,710 --> 00:48:34,640
can't see what's way ahead of us but if

1415
00:48:38,150 --> 00:48:36,720
you had this perspective of the one mind

1416
00:48:39,589 --> 00:48:38,160
the broader consciousness that's beyond

1417
00:48:41,670 --> 00:48:39,599
space and time

1418
00:48:43,349 --> 00:48:41,680
there's more to the story

1419
00:48:45,109 --> 00:48:43,359
so therefore we can't really judge

1420
00:48:46,390 --> 00:48:45,119
things as quote unquote good and bad

1421
00:48:48,150 --> 00:48:46,400
because there are these potentially

1422
00:48:49,829 --> 00:48:48,160
unintended consequences someone has a

1423
00:48:51,589 --> 00:48:49,839
tragedy in his or her life but it can

1424
00:48:53,670 --> 00:48:51,599
lead to amazing things later in life

1425
00:48:54,950 --> 00:48:53,680
that were not foreseeable at the time of

1426
00:48:57,349 --> 00:48:54,960
the tragedy

1427
00:48:58,950 --> 00:48:57,359
and at a from the lens of spiritual

1428
00:49:00,069 --> 00:48:58,960
awakening people often talk about a dark

1429
00:49:02,230 --> 00:49:00,079
night of the soul

1430
00:49:04,950 --> 00:49:02,240
where they have a horrible event and for

1431
00:49:06,069 --> 00:49:04,960
me i had one so in 2016 when i first got

1432
00:49:09,109 --> 00:49:06,079
into the stuff i was listening to

1433
00:49:11,670 --> 00:49:09,119
podcasts i heard about you know spirits

1434
00:49:14,230 --> 00:49:11,680
and just paranormal phenomena that i

1435
00:49:15,589 --> 00:49:14,240
wouldn't have thought about before prior

1436
00:49:17,910 --> 00:49:15,599
to that

1437
00:49:18,950 --> 00:49:17,920
i was i thought life was meaningless

1438
00:49:20,390 --> 00:49:18,960
some things weren't going well

1439
00:49:22,069 --> 00:49:20,400
professionally like some deals weren't

1440
00:49:23,510 --> 00:49:22,079
going the way i wanted in my personal

1441
00:49:25,030 --> 00:49:23,520
life things weren't going the way that i

1442
00:49:26,630 --> 00:49:25,040
wanted and you know i'm such an

1443
00:49:27,750 --> 00:49:26,640
accomplished accomplishment focused

1444
00:49:29,109 --> 00:49:27,760
person

1445
00:49:30,309 --> 00:49:29,119
you know it was a tough time for me then

1446
00:49:31,670 --> 00:49:30,319
i happened to stumble across these

1447
00:49:34,150 --> 00:49:31,680
podcasts my life shifted in a new

1448
00:49:35,670 --> 00:49:34,160
direction but i was probably more

1449
00:49:37,750 --> 00:49:35,680
receptive at the time because i was in

1450
00:49:39,430 --> 00:49:37,760
that dark night of the soul period and

1451
00:49:40,870 --> 00:49:39,440
now it's led to a very different life

1452
00:49:42,790 --> 00:49:40,880
which has been much more fulfilling over

1453
00:49:44,390 --> 00:49:42,800
the last few years so if you apply that

1454
00:49:46,069 --> 00:49:44,400
to the collective level i see what's

1455
00:49:47,910 --> 00:49:46,079
happening right now as a dark night of

1456
00:49:49,670 --> 00:49:47,920
the soul whether we will come out of it

1457
00:49:51,349 --> 00:49:49,680
is as an open question but i agree with

1458
00:49:53,670 --> 00:49:51,359
you alex there are unintended positive

1459
00:49:55,349 --> 00:49:53,680
consequences and on the really positive

1460
00:49:57,589 --> 00:49:55,359
side if we do come out of this and i

1461
00:50:00,390 --> 00:49:57,599
think if some of these corrupt systems

1462
00:50:03,270 --> 00:50:00,400
are collapsed or were and or were able

1463
00:50:05,589 --> 00:50:03,280
to build new systems in parallel we

1464
00:50:07,349 --> 00:50:05,599
could have a world that is potentially

1465
00:50:08,870 --> 00:50:07,359
so positive that we can't even imagine

1466
00:50:10,790 --> 00:50:08,880
it and that's what i tried to hold in my

1467
00:50:12,950 --> 00:50:10,800
mind

1468
00:50:15,030 --> 00:50:12,960
let's talk a little bit about the

1469
00:50:16,870 --> 00:50:15,040
assault on science

1470
00:50:18,950 --> 00:50:16,880
that has been

1471
00:50:20,230 --> 00:50:18,960
this pandemic because

1472
00:50:22,150 --> 00:50:20,240
that's one of the angles i've been

1473
00:50:23,829 --> 00:50:22,160
trying to cover because i don't normally

1474
00:50:26,710 --> 00:50:23,839
like to get into those kind of topics or

1475
00:50:28,710 --> 00:50:26,720
even current event topics i try although

1476
00:50:30,950 --> 00:50:28,720
i really break the rule all the time but

1477
00:50:32,950 --> 00:50:30,960
kind of stay in my lane of science and

1478
00:50:34,549 --> 00:50:32,960
spirituality

1479
00:50:36,950 --> 00:50:34,559
but again as i've kind of maybe

1480
00:50:41,190 --> 00:50:36,960
emphasized maybe too much in this show

1481
00:50:42,950 --> 00:50:41,200
i see a direct through line between the

1482
00:50:44,549 --> 00:50:42,960
attack on science that was

1483
00:50:45,829 --> 00:50:44,559
parapsychology

1484
00:50:47,109 --> 00:50:45,839
which

1485
00:50:48,150 --> 00:50:47,119
you know both

1486
00:50:50,069 --> 00:50:48,160
was

1487
00:50:52,069 --> 00:50:50,079
it's hard to say who won there i think

1488
00:50:54,790 --> 00:50:52,079
in some respects like you're saying dean

1489
00:50:57,510 --> 00:50:54,800
rayden definitely won but in the larger

1490
00:50:59,750 --> 00:50:57,520
sense maybe he didn't win because when

1491
00:51:00,710 --> 00:50:59,760
they can sideline the whole thing and

1492
00:51:02,790 --> 00:51:00,720
just

1493
00:51:03,589 --> 00:51:02,800
ignore it then you know did you really

1494
00:51:05,750 --> 00:51:03,599
win

1495
00:51:08,309 --> 00:51:05,760
but i'm digressing again because what i

1496
00:51:10,630 --> 00:51:08,319
really want to talk about is we're at a

1497
00:51:12,470 --> 00:51:10,640
whole new level with the assault on

1498
00:51:15,349 --> 00:51:12,480
science i just dipped into a little bit

1499
00:51:16,710 --> 00:51:15,359
of the mask science the covid mask thing

1500
00:51:17,990 --> 00:51:16,720
and the reason i like to stay with the

1501
00:51:18,950 --> 00:51:18,000
mask is

1502
00:51:21,750 --> 00:51:18,960
it's

1503
00:51:23,589 --> 00:51:21,760
so much less controversial than talking

1504
00:51:25,270 --> 00:51:23,599
about the virus and talking about the

1505
00:51:28,549 --> 00:51:25,280
vaccine and all that

1506
00:51:30,790 --> 00:51:28,559
just the mask it's just phony science it

1507
00:51:33,430 --> 00:51:30,800
just i'd look back at the interviews

1508
00:51:35,750 --> 00:51:33,440
that i had you know with sheldrick and

1509
00:51:38,470 --> 00:51:35,760
raiden and richard wiseman and the

1510
00:51:41,270 --> 00:51:38,480
controversies it's not even close to

1511
00:51:43,270 --> 00:51:41,280
that in terms of being it's so fake it's

1512
00:51:45,190 --> 00:51:43,280
like anyone should be able to see that

1513
00:51:46,710 --> 00:51:45,200
it's fake and

1514
00:51:47,510 --> 00:51:46,720
our guard

1515
00:51:53,030 --> 00:51:47,520
has

1516
00:51:55,510 --> 00:51:53,040
been let down but there's just no

1517
00:51:58,309 --> 00:51:55,520
meaningful pushback on just the most

1518
00:51:59,109 --> 00:51:58,319
atrocious science that has come with

1519
00:52:02,470 --> 00:51:59,119
this

1520
00:52:04,630 --> 00:52:02,480
pandemic and the associated

1521
00:52:06,549 --> 00:52:04,640
decisions that are being made off of it

1522
00:52:08,230 --> 00:52:06,559
and it's something you cover in the book

1523
00:52:10,790 --> 00:52:08,240
but maybe you want to talk about here at

1524
00:52:12,549 --> 00:52:10,800
kind of that high level of assault on

1525
00:52:14,549 --> 00:52:12,559
science kind of thing

1526
00:52:16,870 --> 00:52:14,559
yeah well we see it with consciousness

1527
00:52:19,270 --> 00:52:16,880
science i saw professionally with some

1528
00:52:21,349 --> 00:52:19,280
new ideas that were out there that were

1529
00:52:22,870 --> 00:52:21,359
threatening to big companies we're

1530
00:52:23,910 --> 00:52:22,880
seeing the same thing now if there's

1531
00:52:25,589 --> 00:52:23,920
science that comes out that is

1532
00:52:27,109 --> 00:52:25,599
threatening to the narrative

1533
00:52:28,470 --> 00:52:27,119
which threatens those who are in charge

1534
00:52:29,510 --> 00:52:28,480
of the narrative whoever those people

1535
00:52:30,950 --> 00:52:29,520
may be

1536
00:52:32,630 --> 00:52:30,960
it's being shut out

1537
00:52:33,829 --> 00:52:32,640
so i've been trying to reconcile this

1538
00:52:35,510 --> 00:52:33,839
too and how do we deal with it and how

1539
00:52:36,790 --> 00:52:35,520
do we how do we even communicate with

1540
00:52:41,349 --> 00:52:36,800
those who

1541
00:52:44,790 --> 00:52:42,710
i've been in this position like i said

1542
00:52:46,069 --> 00:52:44,800
where i've had the time to investigate

1543
00:52:47,910 --> 00:52:46,079
and to look at what the mainstream's

1544
00:52:49,109 --> 00:52:47,920
saying look at their claims and then to

1545
00:52:50,790 --> 00:52:49,119
actually look at some of these other

1546
00:52:52,710 --> 00:52:50,800
studies and what the alternative people

1547
00:52:54,309 --> 00:52:52,720
are saying and to evaluate both

1548
00:52:55,990 --> 00:52:54,319
i can understand for those who don't

1549
00:52:57,670 --> 00:52:56,000
have the time to do that if you're just

1550
00:52:59,430 --> 00:52:57,680
super busy with work and your family and

1551
00:53:01,510 --> 00:52:59,440
you just see what's on tv and you see

1552
00:53:02,870 --> 00:53:01,520
the headline from cnn who you trusted

1553
00:53:05,670 --> 00:53:02,880
your whole life and the new york times

1554
00:53:07,190 --> 00:53:05,680
and you just go with it you who who you

1555
00:53:09,270 --> 00:53:07,200
think they're really going to lie to the

1556
00:53:10,870 --> 00:53:09,280
world about something so big

1557
00:53:13,030 --> 00:53:10,880
it takes a lot to overcome that

1558
00:53:15,430 --> 00:53:13,040
mentality so it takes independent

1559
00:53:16,870 --> 00:53:15,440
investigation it takes a willingness to

1560
00:53:18,630 --> 00:53:16,880
to acknowledge the possibility of

1561
00:53:19,990 --> 00:53:18,640
conspiracy and evil and a lot of people

1562
00:53:20,950 --> 00:53:20,000
don't want to do that

1563
00:53:22,069 --> 00:53:20,960
um

1564
00:53:24,710 --> 00:53:22,079
but

1565
00:53:26,710 --> 00:53:24,720
the suppression is unbelievable

1566
00:53:30,870 --> 00:53:26,720
uh it's unbelievable in in so many

1567
00:53:34,549 --> 00:53:33,109
it which continues for me to reinforce

1568
00:53:36,950 --> 00:53:34,559
the idea that there is something going

1569
00:53:37,990 --> 00:53:36,960
on it's it's not innocent

1570
00:53:39,589 --> 00:53:38,000
because

1571
00:53:42,549 --> 00:53:39,599
the suppression seems to go in one

1572
00:53:44,950 --> 00:53:42,559
direction it goes in the direction of

1573
00:53:47,109 --> 00:53:44,960
fear you should be more scared of this

1574
00:53:48,390 --> 00:53:47,119
and it goes in the direction of we

1575
00:53:50,150 --> 00:53:48,400
should take away your liberties as a

1576
00:53:51,589 --> 00:53:50,160
result of that that seems to be the

1577
00:53:52,710 --> 00:53:51,599
direction of the manipulation of science

1578
00:53:53,990 --> 00:53:52,720
typically

1579
00:53:55,030 --> 00:53:54,000
i want to pick them on one thing you

1580
00:53:57,349 --> 00:53:55,040
just said

1581
00:53:59,829 --> 00:53:57,359
and that is acknowledging the

1582
00:54:01,670 --> 00:53:59,839
possibility and it does relate back to

1583
00:54:03,349 --> 00:54:01,680
the consciousness thing too it relates

1584
00:54:06,549 --> 00:54:03,359
back to the little anecdote you told

1585
00:54:09,589 --> 00:54:06,559
about your buddy who said you know

1586
00:54:11,430 --> 00:54:09,599
nah thanks mark find the way i am you

1587
00:54:13,190 --> 00:54:11,440
know by the way do you want to come over

1588
00:54:15,430 --> 00:54:13,200
and watch the ball game this weekend

1589
00:54:17,750 --> 00:54:15,440
please let's watch the ball game i don't

1590
00:54:18,790 --> 00:54:17,760
want to think about anything else and i

1591
00:54:21,349 --> 00:54:18,800
think

1592
00:54:23,349 --> 00:54:21,359
back from to the total spiritual kind of

1593
00:54:24,390 --> 00:54:23,359
perspective

1594
00:54:26,630 --> 00:54:24,400
we know

1595
00:54:29,030 --> 00:54:26,640
that the the spiritual masters and the

1596
00:54:31,430 --> 00:54:29,040
yogis have told us all along that that

1597
00:54:34,069 --> 00:54:31,440
that doesn't change for people very

1598
00:54:36,829 --> 00:54:34,079
easily and it only changes when they're

1599
00:54:39,670 --> 00:54:36,839
ready and you can't shake somebody by

1600
00:54:41,430 --> 00:54:39,680
the shoulders and say wake up and see

1601
00:54:44,390 --> 00:54:41,440
the science wake up and see what they're

1602
00:54:46,789 --> 00:54:44,400
doing to you any more than you can say

1603
00:54:47,990 --> 00:54:46,799
wake up to your divine

1604
00:54:51,109 --> 00:54:48,000
spiritual

1605
00:54:53,109 --> 00:54:51,119
wholeness you know wake up to the it's

1606
00:54:54,950 --> 00:54:53,119
one in the same and kind of very

1607
00:54:57,589 --> 00:54:54,960
interesting

1608
00:54:59,349 --> 00:54:57,599
way that if you've given any thought to

1609
00:55:02,230 --> 00:54:59,359
those parallels of the spiritual

1610
00:55:03,670 --> 00:55:02,240
awakening and the the how many people do

1611
00:55:06,470 --> 00:55:03,680
not if we could

1612
00:55:09,190 --> 00:55:06,480
not how many people i can be i'm there

1613
00:55:12,069 --> 00:55:09,200
right i did not want to wake up

1614
00:55:14,390 --> 00:55:12,079
spiritually i was scared as crap of

1615
00:55:16,549 --> 00:55:14,400
waking up spiritually because the

1616
00:55:18,309 --> 00:55:16,559
associations i had without my life were

1617
00:55:20,549 --> 00:55:18,319
my religious background of greek

1618
00:55:23,190 --> 00:55:20,559
orthodox and it was scary as crap and it

1619
00:55:26,069 --> 00:55:23,200
wasn't positive but it was like

1620
00:55:28,309 --> 00:55:26,079
i didn't want to touch that

1621
00:55:29,349 --> 00:55:28,319
that lightning rod or that electric wire

1622
00:55:31,829 --> 00:55:29,359
or whatever

1623
00:55:35,190 --> 00:55:31,839
but there is a parallel now i think

1624
00:55:38,309 --> 00:55:35,200
between that kind of reluctance to go

1625
00:55:41,030 --> 00:55:38,319
through a spiritual transformation and

1626
00:55:42,870 --> 00:55:41,040
this that we see with people who we talk

1627
00:55:44,630 --> 00:55:42,880
to and the normies and the people

1628
00:55:47,190 --> 00:55:44,640
driving around alone in their car with a

1629
00:55:49,349 --> 00:55:47,200
mask on and you want to just go say wake

1630
00:55:51,589 --> 00:55:49,359
up and it's like there's something much

1631
00:55:53,910 --> 00:55:51,599
much deeper that they don't want to wake

1632
00:55:55,589 --> 00:55:53,920
up to what are your thoughts on them

1633
00:55:56,549 --> 00:55:55,599
well going back to the anecdote of my

1634
00:55:58,150 --> 00:55:56,559
buddy

1635
00:55:59,829 --> 00:55:58,160
we had the conversation

1636
00:56:01,670 --> 00:55:59,839
maybe four years or so ago five years

1637
00:56:02,950 --> 00:56:01,680
ago when i first was getting into

1638
00:56:03,990 --> 00:56:02,960
consciousness and that was his reaction

1639
00:56:05,670 --> 00:56:04,000
i don't want to go there mark i don't

1640
00:56:06,950 --> 00:56:05,680
want to rock the boat

1641
00:56:09,030 --> 00:56:06,960
this summer when i was talking to him

1642
00:56:11,270 --> 00:56:09,040
about this new book same reaction

1643
00:56:12,870 --> 00:56:11,280
different topic so it's like they're

1644
00:56:14,230 --> 00:56:12,880
they're somewhat independent paradigm

1645
00:56:15,589 --> 00:56:14,240
shifts even though they're interrelated

1646
00:56:16,950 --> 00:56:15,599
because i think there's a consciousness

1647
00:56:18,710 --> 00:56:16,960
element to all this conspiracy which

1648
00:56:20,309 --> 00:56:18,720
you've covered very well in your show

1649
00:56:22,230 --> 00:56:20,319
but they are somewhat independent and

1650
00:56:25,030 --> 00:56:22,240
they can be siloed

1651
00:56:26,390 --> 00:56:25,040
it's it's similar and as a result we are

1652
00:56:29,270 --> 00:56:26,400
seeing divides in the spiritual

1653
00:56:31,190 --> 00:56:29,280
community of those who are spiritual but

1654
00:56:33,430 --> 00:56:31,200
will reject the notion of

1655
00:56:35,190 --> 00:56:33,440
conspiracy and think it's dangerous and

1656
00:56:36,630 --> 00:56:35,200
actually will think that liberty is

1657
00:56:38,549 --> 00:56:36,640
dangerous somehow

1658
00:56:40,470 --> 00:56:38,559
rick archer has told me that directly

1659
00:56:42,549 --> 00:56:40,480
told me that directly that

1660
00:56:44,950 --> 00:56:42,559
you know talking about any of this stuff

1661
00:56:47,270 --> 00:56:44,960
is dangerous and conspiracy theories are

1662
00:56:49,510 --> 00:56:47,280
dangerous and he'll contradict himself

1663
00:56:52,150 --> 00:56:49,520
and then he'll come back

1664
00:56:54,549 --> 00:56:52,160
so i mean i just gotta call rick out on

1665
00:56:56,470 --> 00:56:54,559
that because it's over and over we we've

1666
00:56:58,309 --> 00:56:56,480
called each other out on it publicly and

1667
00:57:00,309 --> 00:56:58,319
i've had him on the show and i've talked

1668
00:57:02,390 --> 00:57:00,319
about a lot so it's not like new

1669
00:57:04,069 --> 00:57:02,400
information but there is a classic case

1670
00:57:06,950 --> 00:57:04,079
of somebody who's a very

1671
00:57:08,549 --> 00:57:06,960
very very public figure very important

1672
00:57:09,910 --> 00:57:08,559
figure in the alternative spiritual

1673
00:57:11,430 --> 00:57:09,920
community i'll tell you another one is

1674
00:57:13,589 --> 00:57:11,440
jeffrey mishlov does see the thing that

1675
00:57:15,190 --> 00:57:13,599
he recently came out with i mean it's

1676
00:57:17,829 --> 00:57:15,200
like

1677
00:57:20,150 --> 00:57:17,839
what is he talking about has he

1678
00:57:21,910 --> 00:57:20,160
completely lost his sense because the

1679
00:57:23,670 --> 00:57:21,920
other way that we should tie this back

1680
00:57:24,470 --> 00:57:23,680
to because we talked about that other

1681
00:57:27,349 --> 00:57:24,480
thing

1682
00:57:30,870 --> 00:57:27,359
is the the people who

1683
00:57:33,270 --> 00:57:30,880
see this as some kind of political play

1684
00:57:35,990 --> 00:57:33,280
in this kind of left right

1685
00:57:38,470 --> 00:57:36,000
red state blue state i mean

1686
00:57:39,589 --> 00:57:38,480
has it what we've hasn't what we've gone

1687
00:57:42,230 --> 00:57:39,599
through

1688
00:57:45,109 --> 00:57:42,240
thoroughly thoroughly convinced you that

1689
00:57:47,510 --> 00:57:45,119
that is completely ridiculous and is

1690
00:57:49,589 --> 00:57:47,520
just not really where the game is being

1691
00:57:51,510 --> 00:57:49,599
played and yet

1692
00:57:53,670 --> 00:57:51,520
you know people like jeffrey mishlov are

1693
00:57:55,589 --> 00:57:53,680
completely attached to that in a way

1694
00:57:57,349 --> 00:57:55,599
that makes it impossible to break

1695
00:57:59,589 --> 00:57:57,359
through and have these next level

1696
00:58:01,190 --> 00:57:59,599
conversations

1697
00:58:03,349 --> 00:58:01,200
yeah well i haven't personally talked to

1698
00:58:04,150 --> 00:58:03,359
rick about these issues i'm sure at some

1699
00:58:05,670 --> 00:58:04,160
point we'll have an interesting

1700
00:58:07,190 --> 00:58:05,680
conversation i love a show booty at the

1701
00:58:08,630 --> 00:58:07,200
gas pump i think it's one of the most

1702
00:58:09,670 --> 00:58:08,640
important shows in terms of spiritual

1703
00:58:10,950 --> 00:58:09,680
awakening journey and it's really

1704
00:58:11,990 --> 00:58:10,960
helpful absolutely

1705
00:58:14,230 --> 00:58:12,000
um

1706
00:58:15,990 --> 00:58:14,240
but this this divide that we're seeing

1707
00:58:17,030 --> 00:58:16,000
it's

1708
00:58:18,710 --> 00:58:17,040
politics

1709
00:58:20,710 --> 00:58:18,720
talk let me pull you in so so that

1710
00:58:24,950 --> 00:58:20,720
you're not asked to dash people that i'm

1711
00:58:28,069 --> 00:58:24,960
bashing i don't understand that people

1712
00:58:30,710 --> 00:58:28,079
who insist upon seeing this

1713
00:58:31,829 --> 00:58:30,720
through the traditional political

1714
00:58:33,910 --> 00:58:31,839
spectrum

1715
00:58:36,950 --> 00:58:33,920
any more than i understand people in

1716
00:58:39,270 --> 00:58:36,960
frontier science who insist on seeing

1717
00:58:41,829 --> 00:58:39,280
this through all is right and well with

1718
00:58:43,910 --> 00:58:41,839
science we just need better peer review

1719
00:58:46,789 --> 00:58:43,920
and they don't see the conspiracy behind

1720
00:58:49,109 --> 00:58:46,799
it so yeah the the politics of it that's

1721
00:58:51,670 --> 00:58:49,119
gone right there is no real

1722
00:58:53,829 --> 00:58:51,680
left right red state democrat that

1723
00:58:55,430 --> 00:58:53,839
doesn't really

1724
00:58:56,950 --> 00:58:55,440
fit the bill here right

1725
00:58:58,390 --> 00:58:56,960
i agree with you completely it's a super

1726
00:59:00,309 --> 00:58:58,400
important point because there's a

1727
00:59:01,990 --> 00:59:00,319
paradigm that people are in

1728
00:59:03,510 --> 00:59:02,000
of well if you're not a democrat then

1729
00:59:04,710 --> 00:59:03,520
you're a republican and vice versa and

1730
00:59:05,990 --> 00:59:04,720
if you believe this then you're part of

1731
00:59:08,069 --> 00:59:06,000
this political movement and it's this

1732
00:59:09,750 --> 00:59:08,079
very divisive mentality one of the

1733
00:59:12,470 --> 00:59:09,760
things that i try to do in my book and

1734
00:59:14,549 --> 00:59:12,480
upside down liberty is to

1735
00:59:16,710 --> 00:59:14,559
transcend that the left-right division

1736
00:59:18,630 --> 00:59:16,720
and get it more to the spectrum of

1737
00:59:20,150 --> 00:59:18,640
liberty versus non-liberty because

1738
00:59:22,069 --> 00:59:20,160
really the left and the right have

1739
00:59:23,910 --> 00:59:22,079
differing opinions on what the other

1740
00:59:25,510 --> 00:59:23,920
party should be doing which to me is

1741
00:59:27,349 --> 00:59:25,520
counter to principles of liberty and

1742
00:59:29,589 --> 00:59:27,359
then that mentality becomes warped into

1743
00:59:31,750 --> 00:59:29,599
an us versus them and it i think can

1744
00:59:33,430 --> 00:59:31,760
warp our ability to objectively look at

1745
00:59:35,430 --> 00:59:33,440
science because you might hear an

1746
00:59:37,030 --> 00:59:35,440
opinion from that

1747
00:59:38,390 --> 00:59:37,040
let's say if you're a democrat that oh

1748
00:59:41,109 --> 00:59:38,400
the right wingers are saying this is

1749
00:59:43,270 --> 00:59:41,119
true scientifically i'm not a republican

1750
00:59:44,870 --> 00:59:43,280
i think republicans are evil some of

1751
00:59:46,309 --> 00:59:44,880
them and therefore and because i'm a

1752
00:59:48,470 --> 00:59:46,319
good person i can't agree with that

1753
00:59:49,750 --> 00:59:48,480
science it's like this this weird warped

1754
00:59:51,910 --> 00:59:49,760
logic that

1755
00:59:53,510 --> 00:59:51,920
removes objectivity from the situation

1756
00:59:55,430 --> 00:59:53,520
and i think it allows for greater mind

1757
00:59:57,430 --> 00:59:55,440
control i agree

1758
00:59:59,030 --> 00:59:57,440
one last topic and it's a topic i always

1759
01:00:00,950 --> 00:59:59,040
bring up because

1760
01:00:03,349 --> 01:00:00,960
it just has to be front and center in

1761
01:00:05,430 --> 01:00:03,359
this discussion and it's it's difficult

1762
01:00:07,589 --> 01:00:05,440
because it totally throws people for a

1763
01:00:09,829 --> 01:00:07,599
loop but that's e.t

1764
01:00:11,230 --> 01:00:09,839
at ufo and we're right in the middle of

1765
01:00:13,829 --> 01:00:11,240
it we are at an

1766
01:00:16,630 --> 01:00:13,839
unprecedented point in history where

1767
01:00:19,430 --> 01:00:16,640
this has been acknowledged and they've

1768
01:00:21,670 --> 01:00:19,440
released the videos in the most phony

1769
01:00:23,990 --> 01:00:21,680
political psyop kind of way but there's

1770
01:00:25,510 --> 01:00:24,000
no getting away from the evidence and

1771
01:00:26,390 --> 01:00:25,520
there's no getting away from the fact

1772
01:00:29,109 --> 01:00:26,400
that

1773
01:00:31,190 --> 01:00:29,119
despite what we all thought 10 years ago

1774
01:00:33,109 --> 01:00:31,200
and richard dolan wrote in his book

1775
01:00:35,910 --> 01:00:33,119
after disclosure that they'll never

1776
01:00:38,230 --> 01:00:35,920
disclose because then we'll never stop

1777
01:00:40,230 --> 01:00:38,240
asking the questions why did you lie why

1778
01:00:42,390 --> 01:00:40,240
did you threaten these families why did

1779
01:00:44,390 --> 01:00:42,400
you kill these people well

1780
01:00:47,750 --> 01:00:44,400
they did disclose and none of that

1781
01:00:51,829 --> 01:00:47,760
happened and in some ways it's a very

1782
01:00:54,150 --> 01:00:51,839
discouraging uh event as it relates to

1783
01:00:56,549 --> 01:00:54,160
like the pandemic and the destruction of

1784
01:01:00,230 --> 01:00:56,559
liberty and stuff like that because i

1785
01:01:01,990 --> 01:01:00,240
think that is another example of

1786
01:01:04,470 --> 01:01:02,000
something that's happened in the past

1787
01:01:06,390 --> 01:01:04,480
that has parallels that's hap to what's

1788
01:01:09,030 --> 01:01:06,400
happening here you don't think they can

1789
01:01:11,109 --> 01:01:09,040
hide the truth hell yes they can hide

1790
01:01:13,589 --> 01:01:11,119
the truth quite well and they can lie

1791
01:01:15,589 --> 01:01:13,599
about it for extended periods of time

1792
01:01:18,150 --> 01:01:15,599
and they can turn people in circles and

1793
01:01:20,150 --> 01:01:18,160
they can co-opt whatever group you form

1794
01:01:21,670 --> 01:01:20,160
and they can misinform and then they can

1795
01:01:24,950 --> 01:01:21,680
come in and dribble in some good

1796
01:01:27,030 --> 01:01:24,960
information mix it into the pot so

1797
01:01:30,390 --> 01:01:27,040
that's all talking about the method of

1798
01:01:32,950 --> 01:01:30,400
et ufo disclosure then there's just the

1799
01:01:35,510 --> 01:01:32,960
implications of the reality of it what

1800
01:01:37,829 --> 01:01:35,520
does that mean in terms of us and where

1801
01:01:41,430 --> 01:01:37,839
we sit in this world what could that

1802
01:01:42,630 --> 01:01:41,440
possibly mean in terms of if there is an

1803
01:01:45,430 --> 01:01:42,640
underlying

1804
01:01:48,230 --> 01:01:45,440
motivation behind this if there is some

1805
01:01:51,829 --> 01:01:48,240
direction behind all this craziness

1806
01:01:53,990 --> 01:01:51,839
that's going on could it be connected to

1807
01:01:56,789 --> 01:01:54,000
this other intelligence or other

1808
01:01:58,710 --> 01:01:56,799
intelligences which seems to be the case

1809
01:02:00,630 --> 01:01:58,720
laid a ton on the table so just pick

1810
01:02:02,069 --> 01:02:00,640
what you want to talk about

1811
01:02:02,870 --> 01:02:02,079
well i'm really interested in that topic

1812
01:02:05,190 --> 01:02:02,880
too

1813
01:02:07,270 --> 01:02:05,200
um and in my book i mentioned

1814
01:02:09,750 --> 01:02:07,280
the potential for

1815
01:02:12,549 --> 01:02:09,760
metaphysical good and evil and what that

1816
01:02:14,069 --> 01:02:12,559
means for everything so in in this book

1817
01:02:15,670 --> 01:02:14,079
i talk about you know i give some

1818
01:02:16,710 --> 01:02:15,680
controversial views about politics about

1819
01:02:18,390 --> 01:02:16,720
the the way in which government

1820
01:02:19,990 --> 01:02:18,400
threatens liberty inherently and propose

1821
01:02:22,230 --> 01:02:20,000
a new way of doing governing that's much

1822
01:02:24,230 --> 01:02:22,240
more voluntary which on its own is going

1823
01:02:25,670 --> 01:02:24,240
to give people issues i'm sure

1824
01:02:27,670 --> 01:02:25,680
and then i throw on the spiritual part

1825
01:02:28,950 --> 01:02:27,680
too and say that we have to consider

1826
01:02:31,349 --> 01:02:28,960
these other aspects that you mentioned

1827
01:02:32,789 --> 01:02:31,359
alex that there's a metaphysical aspect

1828
01:02:34,470 --> 01:02:32,799
to reality and how is that playing into

1829
01:02:36,150 --> 01:02:34,480
politics and how does it play into the

1830
01:02:37,750 --> 01:02:36,160
meaning of life and why does why does

1831
01:02:38,630 --> 01:02:37,760
politics even matter how does that fit

1832
01:02:40,309 --> 01:02:38,640
into

1833
01:02:41,990 --> 01:02:40,319
metaphysics a lot of political

1834
01:02:43,589 --> 01:02:42,000
discussions don't go there

1835
01:02:45,510 --> 01:02:43,599
but staying on your point about et and

1836
01:02:47,190 --> 01:02:45,520
this idea of other intelligences more

1837
01:02:49,270 --> 01:02:47,200
broadly whether they're

1838
01:02:51,510 --> 01:02:49,280
multi-dimensional beings actual physical

1839
01:02:52,789 --> 01:02:51,520
beings from other dimensions and planets

1840
01:02:55,349 --> 01:02:52,799
i don't know

1841
01:02:56,870 --> 01:02:55,359
we have to consider it we

1842
01:02:58,390 --> 01:02:56,880
it goes back to this idea of mind

1843
01:02:59,750 --> 01:02:58,400
control and how much information is

1844
01:03:01,190 --> 01:02:59,760
being suppressed and you've covered a

1845
01:03:02,549 --> 01:03:01,200
lot of this on your show the et

1846
01:03:04,069 --> 01:03:02,559
phenomenon

1847
01:03:05,109 --> 01:03:04,079
there's probably so much that we don't

1848
01:03:05,990 --> 01:03:05,119
know and then certain things that we

1849
01:03:07,430 --> 01:03:06,000
think are real that might be

1850
01:03:09,029 --> 01:03:07,440
disinformation

1851
01:03:10,549 --> 01:03:09,039
um and then

1852
01:03:12,789 --> 01:03:10,559
on a related note

1853
01:03:14,630 --> 01:03:12,799
how can these forces be tapped into for

1854
01:03:17,109 --> 01:03:14,640
both good and evil and to what extent is

1855
01:03:18,630 --> 01:03:17,119
that being done to enact good and evil

1856
01:03:19,910 --> 01:03:18,640
on the planet and then you start getting

1857
01:03:21,190 --> 01:03:19,920
into stuff that you've been looking at

1858
01:03:23,029 --> 01:03:21,200
too and i i don't feel like i have a

1859
01:03:25,270 --> 01:03:23,039
grasp on this but i'm interested is

1860
01:03:26,710 --> 01:03:25,280
looking at ancient texts you know the

1861
01:03:29,430 --> 01:03:26,720
gnostic texts and some of the ancient

1862
01:03:31,510 --> 01:03:29,440
mythologies what's what's misinformation

1863
01:03:32,950 --> 01:03:31,520
from that what is just pure mythology

1864
01:03:35,349 --> 01:03:32,960
and what might where might there be

1865
01:03:37,430 --> 01:03:35,359
hints of truth so in my book i actually

1866
01:03:40,069 --> 01:03:37,440
quote uh the nag hamadi texts which were

1867
01:03:42,069 --> 01:03:40,079
discovered in 1945 uh farmers were

1868
01:03:44,390 --> 01:03:42,079
looking for a manure and found these uh

1869
01:03:45,670 --> 01:03:44,400
these tablets there that seem to have

1870
01:03:47,510 --> 01:03:45,680
been removed from the new testament

1871
01:03:49,190 --> 01:03:47,520
potentially so that makes me interested

1872
01:03:50,789 --> 01:03:49,200
in those who speculate that it's removed

1873
01:03:52,950 --> 01:03:50,799
from the traditional religious text i

1874
01:03:54,470 --> 01:03:52,960
get curious why why might that have been

1875
01:03:56,470 --> 01:03:54,480
removed is there something of interest

1876
01:03:57,910 --> 01:03:56,480
there and there's one of the texts

1877
01:03:59,670 --> 01:03:57,920
within the non-commodity scriptures is

1878
01:04:01,190 --> 01:03:59,680
called the rulers

1879
01:04:02,230 --> 01:04:01,200
and there's a quote i'm paraphrasing it

1880
01:04:03,990 --> 01:04:02,240
here

1881
01:04:05,270 --> 01:04:04,000
they talk about when humanity left the

1882
01:04:06,390 --> 01:04:05,280
garden of eden

1883
01:04:07,750 --> 01:04:06,400
they said

1884
01:04:10,710 --> 01:04:07,760
the text says

1885
01:04:13,670 --> 01:04:10,720
the rulers left humanity in a great

1886
01:04:15,670 --> 01:04:13,680
state of confusion and to a life of toil

1887
01:04:17,589 --> 01:04:15,680
so that they would be preoccupied with

1888
01:04:22,309 --> 01:04:17,599
the things of the world and wouldn't

1889
01:04:26,069 --> 01:04:22,319
have time to focus on the holy spirit

1890
01:04:29,990 --> 01:04:26,079
that to me sounds a lot like this world

1891
01:04:31,510 --> 01:04:30,000
yeah i i i'm with you i think it's super

1892
01:04:34,309 --> 01:04:31,520
important

1893
01:04:35,990 --> 01:04:34,319
i don't know how to begin to kind of

1894
01:04:37,589 --> 01:04:36,000
deconstruct it so

1895
01:04:39,270 --> 01:04:37,599
you've obviously listened to a couple of

1896
01:04:42,470 --> 01:04:39,280
my things there

1897
01:04:45,109 --> 01:04:42,480
one the one place i start is

1898
01:04:47,670 --> 01:04:45,119
what we do know in terms of what would

1899
01:04:49,109 --> 01:04:47,680
in the past along the non commodity

1900
01:04:51,029 --> 01:04:49,119
library

1901
01:04:53,510 --> 01:04:51,039
the dead sea scrolls

1902
01:04:55,029 --> 01:04:53,520
i mentioned very interestingly the dead

1903
01:04:57,990 --> 01:04:55,039
sea scrolls and the connection with

1904
01:05:00,309 --> 01:04:58,000
josephus i've had a bunch of biblical

1905
01:05:02,230 --> 01:05:00,319
scholars on everyone references josephus

1906
01:05:04,069 --> 01:05:02,240
but at the same time they acknowledge

1907
01:05:06,789 --> 01:05:04,079
that it's just a terrible terrible

1908
01:05:09,349 --> 01:05:06,799
historical source that has created an

1909
01:05:11,670 --> 01:05:09,359
incredible amount of havoc in terms of

1910
01:05:13,670 --> 01:05:11,680
these books that we have that people

1911
01:05:15,990 --> 01:05:13,680
live their whole life on and then if to

1912
01:05:18,069 --> 01:05:16,000
have generationally kind of look back

1913
01:05:20,710 --> 01:05:18,079
but mom believed it dad believed it

1914
01:05:23,190 --> 01:05:20,720
granddad believed it and that's a very

1915
01:05:26,309 --> 01:05:23,200
hard thing to kind of

1916
01:05:28,150 --> 01:05:26,319
pull yourself out of but if i can i'd

1917
01:05:29,430 --> 01:05:28,160
switch back to the et thing because i

1918
01:05:33,430 --> 01:05:29,440
always like to throw this in there

1919
01:05:35,190 --> 01:05:33,440
because even i forget it sometimes

1920
01:05:37,750 --> 01:05:35,200
in the e.t realm

1921
01:05:39,670 --> 01:05:37,760
one of the ways that there is community

1922
01:05:41,589 --> 01:05:39,680
is being divided and it's fractured in a

1923
01:05:45,109 --> 01:05:41,599
bunch of different ways is a lot of talk

1924
01:05:46,910 --> 01:05:45,119
about consciousness as it relates to e.t

1925
01:05:49,190 --> 01:05:46,920
and i don't know if et is

1926
01:05:50,870 --> 01:05:49,200
multi-dimensional and i don't know why

1927
01:05:52,789 --> 01:05:50,880
is everyone hung up on the nuts and

1928
01:05:55,349 --> 01:05:52,799
bolts reality of it so i'm going to

1929
01:05:57,910 --> 01:05:55,359
pound on a drum that i pound on a lot is

1930
01:05:58,870 --> 01:05:57,920
look at the nukes

1931
01:06:01,510 --> 01:05:58,880
so the

1932
01:06:02,630 --> 01:06:01,520
ufos fly over

1933
01:06:04,549 --> 01:06:02,640
our nuke

1934
01:06:06,789 --> 01:06:04,559
air force bases

1935
01:06:09,829 --> 01:06:06,799
and one by one they go to each missile

1936
01:06:12,309 --> 01:06:09,839
silo and they shoot down a red beam and

1937
01:06:14,390 --> 01:06:12,319
they shut off each one of the missiles

1938
01:06:16,870 --> 01:06:14,400
and this is reported from people above

1939
01:06:19,349 --> 01:06:16,880
the ground the soldiers are out there

1940
01:06:21,589 --> 01:06:19,359
responsible for protecting the perimeter

1941
01:06:24,549 --> 01:06:21,599
of the base it's also reported from

1942
01:06:26,470 --> 01:06:24,559
inside the guy who's responsible for

1943
01:06:28,549 --> 01:06:26,480
pushing the button and sending those

1944
01:06:31,670 --> 01:06:28,559
missiles on their way to russia and he's

1945
01:06:35,190 --> 01:06:31,680
like there is no way this can happen but

1946
01:06:39,109 --> 01:06:35,200
it just happened and e.t did it

1947
01:06:41,670 --> 01:06:39,119
what does that say about et's ability

1948
01:06:43,829 --> 01:06:41,680
vis-a-vis our technology

1949
01:06:45,270 --> 01:06:43,839
what does that say about the moral

1950
01:06:49,750 --> 01:06:45,280
imperative

1951
01:06:52,470 --> 01:06:49,760
of et et's nde as i like to say

1952
01:06:53,670 --> 01:06:52,480
it it begins to hint at it in the same

1953
01:06:56,230 --> 01:06:53,680
way that

1954
01:06:58,789 --> 01:06:56,240
you take and i do too take the near

1955
01:07:01,270 --> 01:06:58,799
death experience accounts and say

1956
01:07:03,589 --> 01:07:01,280
we can't take these literally but what

1957
01:07:06,069 --> 01:07:03,599
do they begin to suggest

1958
01:07:07,829 --> 01:07:06,079
and then switch over if you would

1959
01:07:10,390 --> 01:07:07,839
to the ukraine

1960
01:07:13,029 --> 01:07:10,400
where the ufos did the same thing

1961
01:07:14,710 --> 01:07:13,039
but instead of turning the nukes off

1962
01:07:16,390 --> 01:07:14,720
they turned them on

1963
01:07:19,589 --> 01:07:16,400
and they went to the silo and they shot

1964
01:07:21,589 --> 01:07:19,599
down the red beam and one by one they

1965
01:07:24,309 --> 01:07:21,599
turned the nukes on

1966
01:07:26,230 --> 01:07:24,319
and the russian soldiers were like what

1967
01:07:27,990 --> 01:07:26,240
are we going to do the earth will be

1968
01:07:29,430 --> 01:07:28,000
destroyed we have no waves that we're

1969
01:07:31,270 --> 01:07:29,440
not in control

1970
01:07:33,510 --> 01:07:31,280
this is our most advanced technology and

1971
01:07:36,230 --> 01:07:33,520
we're not in control of it

1972
01:07:38,230 --> 01:07:36,240
and then the et's

1973
01:07:40,390 --> 01:07:38,240
turned them back off

1974
01:07:42,549 --> 01:07:40,400
i don't know what that means i don't

1975
01:07:44,309 --> 01:07:42,559
know how many different species there

1976
01:07:46,950 --> 01:07:44,319
are how many different intelligences

1977
01:07:49,029 --> 01:07:46,960
there are i don't know about time travel

1978
01:07:51,750 --> 01:07:49,039
i don't know about the rest of it

1979
01:07:55,589 --> 01:07:51,760
but people who want to dismiss

1980
01:07:56,390 --> 01:07:55,599
ufos and et is purely a problem that has

1981
01:07:58,710 --> 01:07:56,400
to be

1982
01:08:01,270 --> 01:07:58,720
can be chalked up to consciousness and

1983
01:08:03,990 --> 01:08:01,280
some kind of interdimensional

1984
01:08:05,990 --> 01:08:04,000
hocus pocus that we don't know of are

1985
01:08:09,029 --> 01:08:06,000
missing the point that they have

1986
01:08:11,270 --> 01:08:09,039
demonstrated a mastery of our most

1987
01:08:12,069 --> 01:08:11,280
advanced technology

1988
01:08:14,150 --> 01:08:12,079
and

1989
01:08:15,190 --> 01:08:14,160
that would kind of give should give us

1990
01:08:17,349 --> 01:08:15,200
pause

1991
01:08:19,189 --> 01:08:17,359
on both those fronts in terms of the

1992
01:08:20,789 --> 01:08:19,199
nuts and bolts reality of it not that

1993
01:08:23,430 --> 01:08:20,799
there isn't a consciousness reality of

1994
01:08:25,030 --> 01:08:23,440
it too but then also what could

1995
01:08:25,829 --> 01:08:25,040
potentially be

1996
01:08:28,149 --> 01:08:25,839
the

1997
01:08:30,149 --> 01:08:28,159
agenda on you know as we've been talking

1998
01:08:32,229 --> 01:08:30,159
about on a spiritual level because

1999
01:08:33,110 --> 01:08:32,239
they're telling us something on a moral

2000
01:08:35,829 --> 01:08:33,120
level

2001
01:08:39,030 --> 01:08:35,839
and both you and i mark would say well

2002
01:08:39,990 --> 01:08:39,040
that moral level is really speaking to

2003
01:08:42,309 --> 01:08:40,000
something

2004
01:08:44,709 --> 01:08:42,319
on a spiritual level that we don't quite

2005
01:08:46,390 --> 01:08:44,719
or we we get but we don't want to quite

2006
01:08:47,430 --> 01:08:46,400
go there all the time

2007
01:08:48,229 --> 01:08:47,440
what are you what are your thoughts on

2008
01:08:49,669 --> 01:08:48,239
that

2009
01:08:52,149 --> 01:08:49,679
well i'll start with

2010
01:08:53,910 --> 01:08:52,159
the reality of et slash other

2011
01:08:56,070 --> 01:08:53,920
intelligences that are out there and i i

2012
01:08:57,990 --> 01:08:56,080
first like to go to john mack

2013
01:09:00,229 --> 01:08:58,000
and the work that he did harvard

2014
01:09:02,229 --> 01:09:00,239
psychiatrist look at looked at cases of

2015
01:09:05,189 --> 01:09:02,239
abduction i have his books they're

2016
01:09:06,950 --> 01:09:05,199
extremely well documented very detailed

2017
01:09:08,070 --> 01:09:06,960
and he kind of reminds me of dr ian

2018
01:09:10,149 --> 01:09:08,080
stevenson from the university of

2019
01:09:12,390 --> 01:09:10,159
virginia psychiatrist was looking at

2020
01:09:14,309 --> 01:09:12,400
things very closely and was like look if

2021
01:09:15,990 --> 01:09:14,319
i want to if i want to take all these

2022
01:09:17,590 --> 01:09:16,000
data points in the most logical

2023
01:09:19,430 --> 01:09:17,600
conclusion is reincarnation of all these

2024
01:09:21,110 --> 01:09:19,440
kids with past life memories john mack

2025
01:09:21,990 --> 01:09:21,120
seemed to come to a very similar place

2026
01:09:23,269 --> 01:09:22,000
and there are many others that have

2027
01:09:24,229 --> 01:09:23,279
looked at this too

2028
01:09:25,829 --> 01:09:24,239
but

2029
01:09:27,189 --> 01:09:25,839
there's something going on i don't think

2030
01:09:28,709 --> 01:09:27,199
i'm an expert on it there's a lot that i

2031
01:09:29,910 --> 01:09:28,719
don't know and understand but the fact

2032
01:09:31,349 --> 01:09:29,920
that there does seem to be going

2033
01:09:32,870 --> 01:09:31,359
something going on

2034
01:09:34,229 --> 01:09:32,880
indicates we need to ask the questions

2035
01:09:36,470 --> 01:09:34,239
that you're asking alex is how does that

2036
01:09:37,990 --> 01:09:36,480
interplay on a physical level with

2037
01:09:39,990 --> 01:09:38,000
geopolitics

2038
01:09:41,910 --> 01:09:40,000
what's what's going on beyond what we

2039
01:09:43,510 --> 01:09:41,920
can see it's and it's very similar to

2040
01:09:45,669 --> 01:09:43,520
the world of consciousness

2041
01:09:47,430 --> 01:09:45,679
why people have a hard time accepting it

2042
01:09:49,990 --> 01:09:47,440
it implies there are things that we

2043
01:09:51,189 --> 01:09:50,000
can't access with our senses and it also

2044
01:09:53,430 --> 01:09:51,199
implies that there are things that we

2045
01:09:55,189 --> 01:09:53,440
know but we have an amnesia too these

2046
01:09:57,030 --> 01:09:55,199
are really hard concepts to accept

2047
01:09:58,390 --> 01:09:57,040
because they shatter reality and since i

2048
01:09:59,990 --> 01:09:58,400
guess my reality has been shattered so

2049
01:10:01,510 --> 01:10:00,000
much i'm very open-minded

2050
01:10:02,870 --> 01:10:01,520
to at least the possibility i don't know

2051
01:10:04,950 --> 01:10:02,880
what's true and what's not but i think

2052
01:10:08,070 --> 01:10:04,960
we have to consider it and also we have

2053
01:10:09,990 --> 01:10:08,080
to be very skeptical of history um

2054
01:10:11,270 --> 01:10:10,000
because we're seeing

2055
01:10:12,870 --> 01:10:11,280
right now that history is being

2056
01:10:14,470 --> 01:10:12,880
manipulated an event will happen the

2057
01:10:16,149 --> 01:10:14,480
news will frame it one way and that that

2058
01:10:18,149 --> 01:10:16,159
it might go down in the history books as

2059
01:10:19,910 --> 01:10:18,159
having happened that way when in fact it

2060
01:10:21,430 --> 01:10:19,920
leaves out many other things so how does

2061
01:10:23,590 --> 01:10:21,440
that ripple into what's happened in the

2062
01:10:24,790 --> 01:10:23,600
past and what has not been disclosed in

2063
01:10:26,790 --> 01:10:24,800
the media that might have been more

2064
01:10:29,350 --> 01:10:26,800
mainstream at one point which could

2065
01:10:30,470 --> 01:10:29,360
relate to et or otherwise

2066
01:10:32,070 --> 01:10:30,480
and

2067
01:10:33,750 --> 01:10:32,080
i guess where i would close on that is

2068
01:10:35,110 --> 01:10:33,760
we have to consider it and look into it

2069
01:10:36,870 --> 01:10:35,120
very closely

2070
01:10:39,590 --> 01:10:36,880
absolutely

2071
01:10:42,149 --> 01:10:39,600
so uh mark we could

2072
01:10:44,709 --> 01:10:42,159
i thoroughly enjoy all of this and

2073
01:10:47,910 --> 01:10:44,719
you're such a deep thinker and you're at

2074
01:10:49,830 --> 01:10:47,920
another level that allows you to talk

2075
01:10:52,470 --> 01:10:49,840
about all these topics and weave them

2076
01:10:54,790 --> 01:10:52,480
together in a way that very very few

2077
01:10:57,910 --> 01:10:54,800
people can so i strongly encourage

2078
01:10:59,590 --> 01:10:57,920
anyone to who's interested to pick up

2079
01:11:01,750 --> 01:10:59,600
all of these books if you're unfamiliar

2080
01:11:04,149 --> 01:11:01,760
with an end to upside down thinking

2081
01:11:07,430 --> 01:11:04,159
you'll find it just

2082
01:11:09,669 --> 01:11:07,440
really really readable well uh sourced

2083
01:11:12,310 --> 01:11:09,679
in terms of the support for what he's

2084
01:11:14,790 --> 01:11:12,320
saying and the same with this new book

2085
01:11:17,350 --> 01:11:14,800
and end to upside down liberty

2086
01:11:19,030 --> 01:11:17,360
where do you plan on going next and what

2087
01:11:20,870 --> 01:11:19,040
are you gonna i guess the book is just

2088
01:11:22,550 --> 01:11:20,880
out now so

2089
01:11:24,550 --> 01:11:22,560
where do you what do you want to do with

2090
01:11:25,669 --> 01:11:24,560
it and where do you plan to go next with

2091
01:11:28,149 --> 01:11:25,679
it mark

2092
01:11:29,590 --> 01:11:28,159
i wish i knew my life over the last five

2093
01:11:32,310 --> 01:11:29,600
plus years has been

2094
01:11:33,750 --> 01:11:32,320
a continuous mystery of i i follow what

2095
01:11:35,430 --> 01:11:33,760
i'm passionate in and what seems to

2096
01:11:37,270 --> 01:11:35,440
align with my values so i'm going to

2097
01:11:38,630 --> 01:11:37,280
continue doing that and life seems to

2098
01:11:40,149 --> 01:11:38,640
present itself with things that i need

2099
01:11:41,990 --> 01:11:40,159
to do so generally that's how i think

2100
01:11:43,590 --> 01:11:42,000
about it but what i feel right now is

2101
01:11:45,270 --> 01:11:43,600
there's urgency to get the message out

2102
01:11:47,189 --> 01:11:45,280
about this stuff so i really want to get

2103
01:11:49,830 --> 01:11:47,199
the message out about the book and get

2104
01:11:50,950 --> 01:11:49,840
people at least questioning these topics

2105
01:11:52,709 --> 01:11:50,960
i want to go back to something you said

2106
01:11:54,630 --> 01:11:52,719
earlier about like you know should we be

2107
01:11:57,350 --> 01:11:54,640
changing people's minds or are they on

2108
01:11:58,870 --> 01:11:57,360
their own path and for me

2109
01:12:00,229 --> 01:11:58,880
what i like to do is put information out

2110
01:12:01,830 --> 01:12:00,239
and those who are interested might

2111
01:12:03,590 --> 01:12:01,840
gravitate towards it i'm not going to

2112
01:12:05,189 --> 01:12:03,600
change people and actually i don't know

2113
01:12:06,470 --> 01:12:05,199
their karmic path or their spiritual

2114
01:12:07,350 --> 01:12:06,480
path maybe they're not supposed to

2115
01:12:08,870 --> 01:12:07,360
change

2116
01:12:10,390 --> 01:12:08,880
so it's more about making things

2117
01:12:12,870 --> 01:12:10,400
accessible for those who are interested

2118
01:12:14,390 --> 01:12:12,880
and that's generally how i look at it

2119
01:12:17,189 --> 01:12:14,400
and we'll see where that goes and i

2120
01:12:19,350 --> 01:12:17,199
think also as the world unfolds in

2121
01:12:21,270 --> 01:12:19,360
different ways i might get pulled into

2122
01:12:23,350 --> 01:12:21,280
new areas

2123
01:12:24,870 --> 01:12:23,360
i think that's great and i really i

2124
01:12:27,350 --> 01:12:24,880
really agree with you on one of the

2125
01:12:29,830 --> 01:12:27,360
points that you made i feel so strongly

2126
01:12:31,830 --> 01:12:29,840
similarly is that

2127
01:12:33,669 --> 01:12:31,840
you know we just have to do our best in

2128
01:12:36,470 --> 01:12:33,679
personally figuring this out and

2129
01:12:38,310 --> 01:12:36,480
figuring out how to take action because

2130
01:12:40,390 --> 01:12:38,320
i am a western guy too you know i love

2131
01:12:43,110 --> 01:12:40,400
the eastern philosophy of

2132
01:12:45,030 --> 01:12:43,120
non-dual and sometimes that means non-do

2133
01:12:46,709 --> 01:12:45,040
you know don't have to do you know don't

2134
01:12:48,790 --> 01:12:46,719
be careful about what you do but i

2135
01:12:50,630 --> 01:12:48,800
always remember talking to

2136
01:12:52,149 --> 01:12:50,640
a guy and i won't mention his name but

2137
01:12:56,630 --> 01:12:52,159
he was in

2138
01:12:58,310 --> 01:12:56,640
you know and he was celibate for a lot

2139
01:13:01,750 --> 01:12:58,320
of years and it's not rick by the way

2140
01:13:03,430 --> 01:13:01,760
but uh although rick was too and then

2141
01:13:06,310 --> 01:13:03,440
you know traveled the world

2142
01:13:08,550 --> 01:13:06,320
teaching for their guru and then only to

2143
01:13:11,910 --> 01:13:08,560
find out he was all about having sex

2144
01:13:13,750 --> 01:13:11,920
with his girls and you know raising

2145
01:13:15,350 --> 01:13:13,760
cheating when the money and doing all

2146
01:13:17,030 --> 01:13:15,360
that other stuff so you know be careful

2147
01:13:19,030 --> 01:13:17,040
who you follow and stuff like that but

2148
01:13:20,550 --> 01:13:19,040
the what this guy told me i'm burying

2149
01:13:23,189 --> 01:13:20,560
the lead

2150
01:13:25,910 --> 01:13:23,199
he said he got very serious and he goes

2151
01:13:27,270 --> 01:13:25,920
never get between a seeker and their

2152
01:13:28,790 --> 01:13:27,280
guru

2153
01:13:31,590 --> 01:13:28,800
i'm like well i'll take that one on

2154
01:13:35,830 --> 01:13:31,600
myself yes i'm gonna get between a

2155
01:13:38,550 --> 01:13:35,840
seeker and their guru so if your guru is

2156
01:13:41,270 --> 01:13:38,560
you know we can name any any number of

2157
01:13:44,390 --> 01:13:41,280
people in the in the news who are cult

2158
01:13:47,189 --> 01:13:44,400
leaders but we can also name you know if

2159
01:13:50,630 --> 01:13:47,199
your guru is any of the people who are

2160
01:13:53,430 --> 01:13:50,640
peddling this pandemic peddling just

2161
01:13:55,830 --> 01:13:53,440
trust me give me all your

2162
01:13:57,430 --> 01:13:55,840
rights and all your liberties and you'll

2163
01:14:00,950 --> 01:13:57,440
be fine

2164
01:14:03,430 --> 01:14:00,960
if that's your guru i i will

2165
01:14:05,990 --> 01:14:03,440
get in the i will try and disrupt not

2166
01:14:08,310 --> 01:14:06,000
physically but intellectually i will try

2167
01:14:09,830 --> 01:14:08,320
and disrupt that connection and i do

2168
01:14:12,149 --> 01:14:09,840
feel like that's my job because i think

2169
01:14:12,950 --> 01:14:12,159
the foremost value

2170
01:14:15,750 --> 01:14:12,960
is

2171
01:14:17,189 --> 01:14:15,760
one love everyone but two tell the truth

2172
01:14:18,630 --> 01:14:17,199
and that's what i think you're trying to

2173
01:14:21,030 --> 01:14:18,640
do and that's what i'm trying to do too

2174
01:14:23,669 --> 01:14:21,040
we got to tell the truth

2175
01:14:24,790 --> 01:14:23,679
no choice i agree with you alex and i

2176
01:14:26,470 --> 01:14:24,800
commend you

2177
01:14:28,709 --> 01:14:26,480
for what you've been doing you've been

2178
01:14:30,709 --> 01:14:28,719
going out there on a limb with many

2179
01:14:32,070 --> 01:14:30,719
topics and i've learned a ton from your

2180
01:14:33,510 --> 01:14:32,080
show and i know your listeners have too

2181
01:14:35,189 --> 01:14:33,520
so thank you

2182
01:14:38,470 --> 01:14:35,199
oh well that's nice for you to say but

2183
01:14:39,830 --> 01:14:38,480
uh thanks we're we're colleagues in this

2184
01:14:41,910 --> 01:14:39,840
endeavor

2185
01:14:44,149 --> 01:14:41,920
mark it's it's fantastic to talk to you

2186
01:14:45,990 --> 01:14:44,159
and we'll have to do it again soon

2187
01:14:47,270 --> 01:14:46,000
thanks a lot for coming on

2188
01:14:49,750 --> 01:14:47,280
i would love that and thank you again

2189
01:14:51,350 --> 01:14:49,760
for having me

2190
01:14:53,750 --> 01:14:51,360
thanks again to mark gober for joining

2191
01:14:56,310 --> 01:14:53,760
me today on skeptico the one question

2192
01:14:59,430 --> 01:14:56,320
i'd have to tee up from this interview

2193
01:15:01,430 --> 01:14:59,440
is do you think frontier science

2194
01:15:02,709 --> 01:15:01,440
parapsychology near death experience all

2195
01:15:06,390 --> 01:15:02,719
the rest of it

2196
01:15:09,350 --> 01:15:06,400
has a special role to play in this kind

2197
01:15:11,910 --> 01:15:09,360
of full frontal assault on science

2198
01:15:14,550 --> 01:15:11,920
is there something special in what they

2199
01:15:17,270 --> 01:15:14,560
discovered because the counter argument

2200
01:15:19,270 --> 01:15:17,280
to that is hey that's just because you

2201
01:15:22,310 --> 01:15:19,280
went and looked at parapsychology and

2202
01:15:25,270 --> 01:15:22,320
you saw that it's everywhere it wasn't

2203
01:15:27,910 --> 01:15:25,280
anything special about parapsychology

2204
01:15:30,709 --> 01:15:27,920
and consciousness science over the last

2205
01:15:32,550 --> 01:15:30,719
10 or 20 years it's really everywhere

2206
01:15:35,189 --> 01:15:32,560
and that's a reasonable counter argument

2207
01:15:36,630 --> 01:15:35,199
so i'd like to hear what your thoughts

2208
01:15:38,870 --> 01:15:36,640
are on that

2209
01:15:43,260 --> 01:15:38,880
track me now let me know

2210
01:15:56,860 --> 01:15:43,270
until next time take care bye for now